5 ms·

McKinsey and Company: Capital’s Willing Executioners

63 points by smacktoward 7y ago

vsskanth 7y ago
Excellent article, thanks for sharing. I wonder, if one wants to disrupt management consulting, what would it be ? Massive open annonymized datasets ?
- GoodJokes 7y ago
  Honestly, workplace democratization. Management consulting depends on illegitimate hierarchies and elitism that discounts regular worker opinions and elevated opinions of “experts.” Consultants tell you how to read your watch. They are by and large not something to be disrupted, but just eliminated.
- vanusa 7y ago
  This whole "management consulting" thing is but a symptom of a deeper, underlying problem. What really needs to be disrupted is the governing ideology of the political-economic system itself.
  - voisin 7y ago
    Please expand on the second paragraph.
  - rayiner 7y ago
    I’m sitting here in Tokyo, in a now rich country that was a developing nation when my dad was born, arguing on my magic pocket computer with someone who may we be in the opposite side of the world. All thanks to the current “governing ideology of the political-economic system.” Making the case that needs to be “disrupted” is a tough road you’ve chosen to hoe.
    - euroPoor 7y ago
      I’m sorry but this assertion does not hold in general. Two things to think about https://psmag.com/magazine/cellphone-revolutionary-objects https://psmag.com/magazine/cellphone-revolutionary-objects https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jul/26/communists-capitalism-stalinism-economic-model https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jul/26/commun...
      - rayiner 7y ago
        Capitalism is consensus. Even Europe, which experimented with soft forms of socialism in the 1960s-1980s, has settled back to various forms of capitalist welfare system with free markets, low business taxes, and reduced regulation. Tatcher, Reagan, Merkel, Clinton, Blair, Harper, Howard, Johnson-these people weren’t passing fads. They represent the consensus view of the most prosperous and successful societies in the planet. I find it very difficult to care what privileged people from capitalist countries have to say about the problems of capitalism. There is a blueprint to prosperity. It involves free markets, property rights, individual freedom, respect for investors, the rule of law, and an abiding skepticism of radicalism or social upheaval. Countries like Japan, Singapore, Taiwan, Korea, etc., have followed that blueprint to prosperity within the lifetime of people who are around today. Countries like Bangladesh, where my family hails from, are seeing massive development by moving (imperfectly) in that direction. People like “Owen Jones” May be well intentioned, but in their nativity are a threat to the potential for a free and prosperous world. We’re all on a boat. There are reasonable debates to be had about which way we should steer the boat or how fast to go. But the people espousing socialism (not like Macron welfare capitalist, but as contradistinguished from capitalism) are trying to poke holes in the boat.
        euroPoor 7y ago
        > I find it very difficult to care what privileged people from capitalist countries have to say about the problems of capitalism. Imagine being this undemocratic and inhumane. You should listen to critique and not outright deny its existence. If you’re going to defend oligarchies (US, France, UK) I don’t know what to tell you but ‘consensus’ and ‘majority view’ are definitely not the keywords here.
    - vanusa 7y ago
      Yes, the gadgets are nifty and -- for the time being -- life is relatively swell (for some). But there are downsides, too -- and the long-term prognosis of what this system holds in store for us... just doesn't look good. And may potentially end quite disastrously, in fact.
      - bhupy 7y ago
        Can you elaborate what the long-term prognosis is?
        vanusa 7y ago
        The inevitable outcome of a system predicated on infinite growth on a planet with finite resources.
euroPoor 7y ago
who would have thought that capitalist realism wasn’t the antidote to all of the world’s problems? certainly not thatcherite or reaganite policy building ideologists!
- CharlesColeman 7y ago
  > capitalist realism I've never heard this term before, but it's perfect. The implicit assumption that certain capitalist economic theories are literally the real world (rather than limited and imperfect models) is something I've been noticing more and more, but never had a term for.
  - mach5 7y ago
    highly recommend the book: https://libcom.org/files/Capitalist%20Realism_%20Is%20There%20No%20Alternat%20-%20Mark%20Fisher.pdf https://libcom.org/files/Capitalist%20Realism_%20Is%20There%...
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
cryoshon 7y ago
excellent article about the flaws of mckinsey as an establishment. it's true that their grift is inexcusable, amoral, and a burden to humanity -- but the OP covered that. the biggest myth surrounding mckinsey is that they're competent. my favorite part about people from mckinsey has been that they're stunningly incapable. need some quick research done? after a lot of hand-holding, you'll be given an uninsightful and dubiously comprehensive summary of the mainstream view on the topic of your choice and a pivot table you didn't want or need, roughly 10 days after you needed it. you won't need to proofread the report, of course. but that isn't what you cared about anyway. need something obscure and complex deeply analyzed and fully understood in an insightful way? again, you'll get some flashy combination of excel and powerpoint shit you don't need or ask for, maybe even ahead of schedule, but you'll also get an irrelevant speech about whatever tangentially topical prestigious person/institution the mckinsey person recently bumped elbows with. you'll also realize that the person working on the thing you wanted doesn't really have any understanding of the thing you wanted them to understand at all -- they're just regurgitating whatever they could find without analysis. however, they've all been imminently presentable people who can articulate themselves clearly and appear to be very serious. this has been my experience with no fewer than 4 former employees -- all of whom were hired to perform tasks exactly like one would expect a business management consultant to be capable of -- but take it with a grain of salt anyway.
- smacktoward 7y ago
  Never underestimate the market for some credentialed person who will tell you what you already wanted to hear.
  - cryoshon 7y ago
    ah yeah, i'm glad you mentioned this because that's the one thing i forgot to include in my original comment: former mckinsey people seem to only tell you what they think you want to hear. they're the ultimate sycophants -- and my experience is that they're the best that money can buy for the task of telling you that you're right, especially when you're completely wrong. it's a real pain, especially when you don't have enough information on an issue to form an opinion yet. you'll get all kinds of probing questions trying to sneakily suss out exactly what you're expecting to see or which way you want them to affirm your opinion on the subject at hand. it seems like their target customer is always someone who wants to add legitimacy to their bad ideas, and they will treat you as such even if you don't want to fit that bill. they're incapable of being objective regarding facts of reality because their mental model for truth is that something that is "right" or "true" only per the opinion of whichever authority figure is the most salient at the moment. it explains a lot about why they're so amoral. it also explains a lot about why they fit in so well to the world of the elites: they're not ever going to have the moral gumption to speak truth to power... or even to the disempowered.
tehjoker 7y ago
Just a reminder that Mayor Pete is an alum of this organization.
- TurkishPoptart 7y ago
  I did not know that!
jshaqaw 7y ago
I worked at McKinsey a while ago. I’m willing to bet this person was an Analyst (the recent college grads). Analysts were most likely to believe the firm’s marketing schpiel about how important they are in the world. In reality, McKinsey just kinda puts out power point decks. People past a certain level at McKinsey admitted that in quiet confidence.

63 points by smacktoward 7y ago

Excellent article, thanks for sharing. I wonder, if one wants to disrupt management consulting, what would it be ? Massive open annonymized datasets ?

GoodJokes 7y ago
Honestly, workplace democratization. Management consulting depends on illegitimate hierarchies and elitism that discounts regular worker opinions and elevated opinions of “experts.” Consultants tell you how to read your watch. They are by and large not something to be disrupted, but just eliminated.
vanusa 7y ago
This whole "management consulting" thing is but a symptom of a deeper, underlying problem. What really needs to be disrupted is the governing ideology of the political-economic system itself.
- voisin 7y ago
  Please expand on the second paragraph.
- rayiner 7y ago
  I’m sitting here in Tokyo, in a now rich country that was a developing nation when my dad was born, arguing on my magic pocket computer with someone who may we be in the opposite side of the world. All thanks to the current “governing ideology of the political-economic system.” Making the case that needs to be “disrupted” is a tough road you’ve chosen to hoe.
  - euroPoor 7y ago
    I’m sorry but this assertion does not hold in general. Two things to think about https://psmag.com/magazine/cellphone-revolutionary-objects https://psmag.com/magazine/cellphone-revolutionary-objects https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jul/26/communists-capitalism-stalinism-economic-model https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jul/26/commun...
    - rayiner 7y ago
      Capitalism is consensus. Even Europe, which experimented with soft forms of socialism in the 1960s-1980s, has settled back to various forms of capitalist welfare system with free markets, low business taxes, and reduced regulation. Tatcher, Reagan, Merkel, Clinton, Blair, Harper, Howard, Johnson-these people weren’t passing fads. They represent the consensus view of the most prosperous and successful societies in the planet. I find it very difficult to care what privileged people from capitalist countries have to say about the problems of capitalism. There is a blueprint to prosperity. It involves free markets, property rights, individual freedom, respect for investors, the rule of law, and an abiding skepticism of radicalism or social upheaval. Countries like Japan, Singapore, Taiwan, Korea, etc., have followed that blueprint to prosperity within the lifetime of people who are around today. Countries like Bangladesh, where my family hails from, are seeing massive development by moving (imperfectly) in that direction. People like “Owen Jones” May be well intentioned, but in their nativity are a threat to the potential for a free and prosperous world. We’re all on a boat. There are reasonable debates to be had about which way we should steer the boat or how fast to go. But the people espousing socialism (not like Macron welfare capitalist, but as contradistinguished from capitalism) are trying to poke holes in the boat.
      - euroPoor 7y ago
        > I find it very difficult to care what privileged people from capitalist countries have to say about the problems of capitalism. Imagine being this undemocratic and inhumane. You should listen to critique and not outright deny its existence. If you’re going to defend oligarchies (US, France, UK) I don’t know what to tell you but ‘consensus’ and ‘majority view’ are definitely not the keywords here.
  - vanusa 7y ago
    Yes, the gadgets are nifty and -- for the time being -- life is relatively swell (for some). But there are downsides, too -- and the long-term prognosis of what this system holds in store for us... just doesn't look good. And may potentially end quite disastrously, in fact.
    - bhupy 7y ago
      Can you elaborate what the long-term prognosis is?
      - vanusa 7y ago
        The inevitable outcome of a system predicated on infinite growth on a planet with finite resources.

euroPoor 7y ago

who would have thought that capitalist realism wasn’t the antidote to all of the world’s problems? certainly not thatcherite or reaganite policy building ideologists!

CharlesColeman 7y ago
> capitalist realism I've never heard this term before, but it's perfect. The implicit assumption that certain capitalist economic theories are literally the real world (rather than limited and imperfect models) is something I've been noticing more and more, but never had a term for.
- mach5 7y ago
  highly recommend the book: https://libcom.org/files/Capitalist%20Realism_%20Is%20There%20No%20Alternat%20-%20Mark%20Fisher.pdf https://libcom.org/files/Capitalist%20Realism_%20Is%20There%...
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]

cryoshon 7y ago

excellent article about the flaws of mckinsey as an establishment. it's true that their grift is inexcusable, amoral, and a burden to humanity -- but the OP covered that. the biggest myth surrounding mckinsey is that they're competent. my favorite part about people from mckinsey has been that they're stunningly incapable. need some quick research done? after a lot of hand-holding, you'll be given an uninsightful and dubiously comprehensive summary of the mainstream view on the topic of your choice and a pivot table you didn't want or need, roughly 10 days after you needed it. you won't need to proofread the report, of course. but that isn't what you cared about anyway. need something obscure and complex deeply analyzed and fully understood in an insightful way? again, you'll get some flashy combination of excel and powerpoint shit you don't need or ask for, maybe even ahead of schedule, but you'll also get an irrelevant speech about whatever tangentially topical prestigious person/institution the mckinsey person recently bumped elbows with. you'll also realize that the person working on the thing you wanted doesn't really have any understanding of the thing you wanted them to understand at all -- they're just regurgitating whatever they could find without analysis. however, they've all been imminently presentable people who can articulate themselves clearly and appear to be very serious. this has been my experience with no fewer than 4 former employees -- all of whom were hired to perform tasks exactly like one would expect a business management consultant to be capable of -- but take it with a grain of salt anyway.

smacktoward 7y ago
Never underestimate the market for some credentialed person who will tell you what you already wanted to hear.
- cryoshon 7y ago
  ah yeah, i'm glad you mentioned this because that's the one thing i forgot to include in my original comment: former mckinsey people seem to only tell you what they think you want to hear. they're the ultimate sycophants -- and my experience is that they're the best that money can buy for the task of telling you that you're right, especially when you're completely wrong. it's a real pain, especially when you don't have enough information on an issue to form an opinion yet. you'll get all kinds of probing questions trying to sneakily suss out exactly what you're expecting to see or which way you want them to affirm your opinion on the subject at hand. it seems like their target customer is always someone who wants to add legitimacy to their bad ideas, and they will treat you as such even if you don't want to fit that bill. they're incapable of being objective regarding facts of reality because their mental model for truth is that something that is "right" or "true" only per the opinion of whichever authority figure is the most salient at the moment. it explains a lot about why they're so amoral. it also explains a lot about why they fit in so well to the world of the elites: they're not ever going to have the moral gumption to speak truth to power... or even to the disempowered.

tehjoker 7y ago

Just a reminder that Mayor Pete is an alum of this organization.

TurkishPoptart 7y ago
I did not know that!

jshaqaw 7y ago

I worked at McKinsey a while ago. I’m willing to bet this person was an Analyst (the recent college grads). Analysts were most likely to believe the firm’s marketing schpiel about how important they are in the world. In reality, McKinsey just kinda puts out power point decks. People past a certain level at McKinsey admitted that in quiet confidence.