7 ms·

Libgen is one of the greatest contributors to scientific productivity worldwide, possibly beaten only by Sci-Hub. Just about everybody in academia knows about i

by knzhou 7y ago

Libgen is one of the greatest contributors to scientific productivity worldwide, possibly beaten only by Sci-Hub. Just about everybody in academia knows about it. If it ever vanished, some of us could probably still get by trading files from person to person, but nothing could be as perfect as what we got now.

lioeters 7y ago
> possibly beaten only by Sci-Hub Today I learned that Library Genesis is actually "powered by Sci-Hub" as its primary source. So I guess they're sister projects by similarly minded people (who seem to be mostly/originally based in Slavic countries, which I find interesting culturally - perhaps it's due to a looser legal environment + activist academics?). > Just about everybody in academia knows about it. That really says something about the state of society, this tension between copyright laws (and the motivations behind them) and the intellectual ideal of free and open access to knowledge.
- mikorym 7y ago
  I am not an expert on the topic, but I believe that in the former Soviet Union it was common between mathematicians to pass around preprints (a la arXiv). These then perculated through to the West. I think it had to do with the USSR and their restrictive (if we are being euphemistic) policies towards academics.
  - gdy 7y ago
    "the USSR and their restrictive (if we are being euphemistic) policies towards academics." What do you mean?
    - alteria 7y ago
      Their policies were for more than "restrictive" is how I'm reading it See [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suppressed_research_in_the_Soviet_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suppressed_research_in_the_Sov...
      - mikorym 7y ago
        Yes. I'm saying restrictive to describe the effect on academic papers. The effect on (oppression of) the academics themselves was much worse.
        gdy 7y ago
        No, that's BS. There are well known cases of genetics and cybernetics being banned for ideological reasons during Stalin's time. Scientific books and articles of convicted 'enemies of the state' were dangerous to possess in that time too. Some scientists used ideological 'arguments' in scientific debates which were dangerous to argue against. But all that, AFAIK, ended after Stalin's death in 1953. Moreover, I've never heard anything about mathematics in this regard.
        mikorym 7y ago
        Not sure what you are saying. Mathematicians were not even allowed to travel abroad [1] and any "concessions" were essentially as it pleased the USSR state. Only from 1990 was movement free in the true sense of the word. [1] An example was when Margulis won the Fields medal: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grigory_Margulis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grigory_Margulis. There are many other examples too.
        mikorym 7y ago
        [2] Also the 1970 Fields medal: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Novikov_(mathematician) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Novikov_(mathematician)
        gdy 7y ago
        What does that have to do with sharing knowledge in the USSR and the countries in the Soviet block? It was never in Soviet ideology to hide knowledge behind paywalls. See, for example, this [0] post about Mir publishing house and warm comments of Indians who grew up with their books. Sci-hub's ideology is just continuation of this approach. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21352277 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21352277
- RiceAndWater 7y ago
  It's actually more the other way round, since Libgen stores all of sci-hub's papers for them.
- userbinator 7y ago
  who seem to be mostly/originally based in Slavic countries, which I find interesting culturally - perhaps it's due to a looser legal environment + activist academics? You see the same situation with Asia --- it's a collectivist culture, they have a very different perspective on IP in general.
  - lioeters 7y ago
    That makes sense, thanks for pointing that out. I can see how it's related to the value system of collectivist (as opposed to individualist) cultures, and how they see intellectual property - as a common good, beyond personal/private ownership.
asdff 7y ago
It's saved me probably 3 grand over the course of college. I would have had to take on debt otherwise to pass my courses.
bscphil 7y ago
> Just about everybody in academia knows about it Just about everybody in academia uses it, too, especially in the case of Scihub. I can't imagine taking the time to actually check whether I have access to some journal when I want to read a paper, let alone jump through all the hoops before you can get a PDF. The first thing we did when my partner's paper was recently published was check to see if it was on Scihub yet. (It was!)
- tripzilch 7y ago
  I remember, in the early 2000s, going through all the trouble of logging into my university library's proxy portal to get access to certain scientific papers. I probably wouldn't have done that if SciHub was available, and it probably would have opened up my eyes sooner to the fact that most people don't even have access to such a portal. Although, frankly, it was a different web back then and if you were persistent you could actually find anything.

by knzhou 7y ago

lioeters 7y ago

> possibly beaten only by Sci-Hub Today I learned that Library Genesis is actually "powered by Sci-Hub" as its primary source. So I guess they're sister projects by similarly minded people (who seem to be mostly/originally based in Slavic countries, which I find interesting culturally - perhaps it's due to a looser legal environment + activist academics?). > Just about everybody in academia knows about it. That really says something about the state of society, this tension between copyright laws (and the motivations behind them) and the intellectual ideal of free and open access to knowledge.

mikorym 7y ago
I am not an expert on the topic, but I believe that in the former Soviet Union it was common between mathematicians to pass around preprints (a la arXiv). These then perculated through to the West. I think it had to do with the USSR and their restrictive (if we are being euphemistic) policies towards academics.
- gdy 7y ago
  "the USSR and their restrictive (if we are being euphemistic) policies towards academics." What do you mean?
  - alteria 7y ago
    Their policies were for more than "restrictive" is how I'm reading it See [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suppressed_research_in_the_Soviet_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suppressed_research_in_the_Sov...
    - mikorym 7y ago
      Yes. I'm saying restrictive to describe the effect on academic papers. The effect on (oppression of) the academics themselves was much worse.
      - gdy 7y ago
        No, that's BS. There are well known cases of genetics and cybernetics being banned for ideological reasons during Stalin's time. Scientific books and articles of convicted 'enemies of the state' were dangerous to possess in that time too. Some scientists used ideological 'arguments' in scientific debates which were dangerous to argue against. But all that, AFAIK, ended after Stalin's death in 1953. Moreover, I've never heard anything about mathematics in this regard.
        mikorym 7y ago
        Not sure what you are saying. Mathematicians were not even allowed to travel abroad [1] and any "concessions" were essentially as it pleased the USSR state. Only from 1990 was movement free in the true sense of the word. [1] An example was when Margulis won the Fields medal: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grigory_Margulis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grigory_Margulis. There are many other examples too.
        mikorym 7y ago
        [2] Also the 1970 Fields medal: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Novikov_(mathematician) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Novikov_(mathematician)
        gdy 7y ago
        What does that have to do with sharing knowledge in the USSR and the countries in the Soviet block? It was never in Soviet ideology to hide knowledge behind paywalls. See, for example, this [0] post about Mir publishing house and warm comments of Indians who grew up with their books. Sci-hub's ideology is just continuation of this approach. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21352277 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21352277
RiceAndWater 7y ago
It's actually more the other way round, since Libgen stores all of sci-hub's papers for them.
userbinator 7y ago
who seem to be mostly/originally based in Slavic countries, which I find interesting culturally - perhaps it's due to a looser legal environment + activist academics? You see the same situation with Asia --- it's a collectivist culture, they have a very different perspective on IP in general.
- lioeters 7y ago
  That makes sense, thanks for pointing that out. I can see how it's related to the value system of collectivist (as opposed to individualist) cultures, and how they see intellectual property - as a common good, beyond personal/private ownership.

asdff 7y ago

It's saved me probably 3 grand over the course of college. I would have had to take on debt otherwise to pass my courses.

bscphil 7y ago

> Just about everybody in academia knows about it Just about everybody in academia uses it, too, especially in the case of Scihub. I can't imagine taking the time to actually check whether I have access to some journal when I want to read a paper, let alone jump through all the hoops before you can get a PDF. The first thing we did when my partner's paper was recently published was check to see if it was on Scihub yet. (It was!)

tripzilch 7y ago
I remember, in the early 2000s, going through all the trouble of logging into my university library's proxy portal to get access to certain scientific papers. I probably wouldn't have done that if SciHub was available, and it probably would have opened up my eyes sooner to the fact that most people don't even have access to such a portal. Although, frankly, it was a different web back then and if you were persistent you could actually find anything.