4 ms·

Any links or ways to push back on this?

loceng 7y ago
The source is from doctors I've had stem cell treatments from. The state of California also has had a lot of difficulty - spending $4 billion on stem cell research, only to run into problems with FDA who greatly limit treatments that the science of regenerative medicine shows to be greatly effective. There aren't many regenerative medicine doctors at the moment and the public isn't educated enough to push back against the regulatory capture that's currently developing. The doctors themselves are adapting to provide certain treatments outside the jurisdiction of the US, otherwise they will continue to provide treatment - knowing that the centralization efforts of big pharma will increase costs to consumers by 2x; people who are in pain of course are arguably the most desperate and whether a treatment that works costs $5,000 or $10,000 - they will pay it. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21694620 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21694620
- sfkdjf9j3j 7y ago
  I think people mean citations of the medical research behind these procedures, not that there exist doctors willing to perform them.
  - loceng 7y ago
    Fair enough. Here's research from one clinic: https://regenexx.com/results/research/ https://regenexx.com/results/research/
    - gamblor956 7y ago
      People mean citations to researchers that don't stand to directly profit from their spurious (i.e., fake) research, like the idiot/murderer that spawned the anti-vaxx movement. So far you've only cited doctors and clinics that directly benefit from promoting stem-cell research, and no unbiased (i.e., academic) studies showing any sort of statistical benefit.
      - lightedman 7y ago
        https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0735109706003500 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S073510970... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2095130/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2095130/ https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Daisuke_Sakai/publication/272843641_Stem_cell_therapy_for_intervertebral_disc_regeneration_Obstacles_and_solutions/links/54fe328f0cf2eaf210b22ed2.pdf https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Daisuke_Sakai/publicati... https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/abs/10.1089/ten.tea.2010.0248 https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/abs/10.1089/ten.tea.2010.0248 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0300908413001570 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S03009... https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00395-005-0553-4 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00395-005-0553-4 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1582-4934.2011.01265.x https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1582-4934... https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=stem+cell+regenerative+therapy+study&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=stem+cell+regenerative+...
        gamblor956 7y ago
        I don't think you bothered to read the citations you provided. Half of them merely describe what stem cell therapy is, several of them describe what they hope stem cell research will accomplish, and only a handful of them actually consist of research on stem cell therapy itself, almost all of which involve animal trials or laboratory trials on human cells outside of the human body. One of these articles even noted that stem cell treatment appeared to be more dangerous than chemotherapy with respect to cancer treatment... So yes, thanks for the cites but you still haven't provided any cites that support the notion that stem cell treatment is either safe or effective in humans.

The source is from doctors I've had stem cell treatments from. The state of California also has had a lot of difficulty - spending $4 billion on stem cell research, only to run into problems with FDA who greatly limit treatments that the science of regenerative medicine shows to be greatly effective. There aren't many regenerative medicine doctors at the moment and the public isn't educated enough to push back against the regulatory capture that's currently developing. The doctors themselves are adapting to provide certain treatments outside the jurisdiction of the US, otherwise they will continue to provide treatment - knowing that the centralization efforts of big pharma will increase costs to consumers by 2x; people who are in pain of course are arguably the most desperate and whether a treatment that works costs $5,000 or $10,000 - they will pay it. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21694620 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21694620

sfkdjf9j3j 7y ago
I think people mean citations of the medical research behind these procedures, not that there exist doctors willing to perform them.
- loceng 7y ago
  Fair enough. Here's research from one clinic: https://regenexx.com/results/research/ https://regenexx.com/results/research/
  - gamblor956 7y ago
    People mean citations to researchers that don't stand to directly profit from their spurious (i.e., fake) research, like the idiot/murderer that spawned the anti-vaxx movement. So far you've only cited doctors and clinics that directly benefit from promoting stem-cell research, and no unbiased (i.e., academic) studies showing any sort of statistical benefit.
    - lightedman 7y ago
      https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0735109706003500 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S073510970... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2095130/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2095130/ https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Daisuke_Sakai/publication/272843641_Stem_cell_therapy_for_intervertebral_disc_regeneration_Obstacles_and_solutions/links/54fe328f0cf2eaf210b22ed2.pdf https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Daisuke_Sakai/publicati... https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/abs/10.1089/ten.tea.2010.0248 https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/abs/10.1089/ten.tea.2010.0248 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0300908413001570 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S03009... https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00395-005-0553-4 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00395-005-0553-4 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1582-4934.2011.01265.x https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1582-4934... https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=stem+cell+regenerative+therapy+study&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=stem+cell+regenerative+...
      - gamblor956 7y ago
        I don't think you bothered to read the citations you provided. Half of them merely describe what stem cell therapy is, several of them describe what they hope stem cell research will accomplish, and only a handful of them actually consist of research on stem cell therapy itself, almost all of which involve animal trials or laboratory trials on human cells outside of the human body. One of these articles even noted that stem cell treatment appeared to be more dangerous than chemotherapy with respect to cancer treatment... So yes, thanks for the cites but you still haven't provided any cites that support the notion that stem cell treatment is either safe or effective in humans.