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> an individual subscribed to the calendars of a wide range of employees outside of their work group. The individual set up notifications so that they received

> an individual subscribed to the calendars of a wide range of employees outside of their work group. The individual set up notifications so that they received emails detailing the work and whereabouts of those employees, including personal matters such as 1:1s, medical appointments and family activities — all without those employees’ knowledge or consent. IMO, this is grey behavior. Certainly stalking people is creepy. But how is this different from accessing any other web page that isn't behind a security boundary? This is at least partially a Calendar problem. Its difficult to set up G Calendar to keep personal appointments private without lots of manual intervention.

fred_is_fred 7y ago
I think the part that keeps being missed is that (according to Google) they then took this info and shared it outside the company. That's where the line was crossed. I may have a Dr appt on my work calendar because I trust my colleagues, but that doesn't mean that I want it sent externally.
- brandmeyer 7y ago
  Sharing screenshots of the calendar contents outside the company is obviously problematic. But whether or not the initial calendar access itself is problematic is much less obvious in my opinion.
  - malvosenior 7y ago
    I think it's all about intent (that's how I'd judge it as a manager anyway). Were people accessing their co-worker's calendars to help schedule a meeting or were they doing it to harass and coerce them? The former is obviously fine and the later is obviously a serious issue that someone should be fired for.
- rurp 7y ago
  Has Google actually claimed that these employees are the ones that leaked the information? The statements I've read, including the one above, do not explicitly say this. Rather, they say that some of the easily accessible information those employees looked at was leaked. Either Google has proof that it was the fired employees and are being weirdly vague about it, or they don't actually know that it was them. If it's the latter, that is extremely scummy on Google's part to heavily imply it was those employees without proof.
lovecg 7y ago
Sure, and it’s also not illegal to sit across the road from your house and take a picture every time you leave or get back.
- shadowgovt 7y ago
  Personal privacy is not the same as corporate privacy.
  - malvosenior 7y ago
    An individual's work day being monitored and leaked is definitely personal privacy. It's not like some new Android leaked, these violations were directed against specific people and aspects of their lives were leaked to outside parties.
    - shadowgovt 7y ago
      Right, but consider the source of the information we're seeing here. Google is not in a position where they're encouraged to spin this story in a positive light for the employees in question. The calendar notification feature does not discriminate, but it also doesn't automatically leak data to an external source. So if, hypothetically, one believed a coworker was involved with a project the company was trying to keep hushed up (such as a search engine built conforming to the design constraints of the Chinese government, or an object recognition tool for military applications), one could keep an eye on the evolution of that project by turning on calendar notifications and observing what meetings that coworker is invited to. But if that coworker also puts "Doctor's appointment" on their work calendar, the observer will of course be notified about that also if the event is made (internal) public. Now, once the observer is notified, they may have chosen to leak to an external source "Hey, a name-notable VP appears to be having a meeting on Thursday titled 'PROJECT: DEFINITELY NOT FACILITATING CHINESE CENSORSHIP'." That doesn't imply they chose to then leak "And they have a doctor's appointment Friday." Google has made the claim the individual in question set up notifications, and those notifications may have caught medical appointments and family activites. Google has made the separate claim that some information was leaked externally. Google has notably not made the claim that doctor's appointments, family activities, etc. were leaked externally. ... and the privacy concerns we honor for people's personal lives do not necessarily extend to the work they're quietly doing on things the public may find unacceptable.

fred_is_fred 7y ago

I think the part that keeps being missed is that (according to Google) they then took this info and shared it outside the company. That's where the line was crossed. I may have a Dr appt on my work calendar because I trust my colleagues, but that doesn't mean that I want it sent externally.

brandmeyer 7y ago
Sharing screenshots of the calendar contents outside the company is obviously problematic. But whether or not the initial calendar access itself is problematic is much less obvious in my opinion.
- malvosenior 7y ago
  I think it's all about intent (that's how I'd judge it as a manager anyway). Were people accessing their co-worker's calendars to help schedule a meeting or were they doing it to harass and coerce them? The former is obviously fine and the later is obviously a serious issue that someone should be fired for.
rurp 7y ago
Has Google actually claimed that these employees are the ones that leaked the information? The statements I've read, including the one above, do not explicitly say this. Rather, they say that some of the easily accessible information those employees looked at was leaked. Either Google has proof that it was the fired employees and are being weirdly vague about it, or they don't actually know that it was them. If it's the latter, that is extremely scummy on Google's part to heavily imply it was those employees without proof.

lovecg 7y ago

Sure, and it’s also not illegal to sit across the road from your house and take a picture every time you leave or get back.

shadowgovt 7y ago
Personal privacy is not the same as corporate privacy.
- malvosenior 7y ago
  An individual's work day being monitored and leaked is definitely personal privacy. It's not like some new Android leaked, these violations were directed against specific people and aspects of their lives were leaked to outside parties.
  - shadowgovt 7y ago
    Right, but consider the source of the information we're seeing here. Google is not in a position where they're encouraged to spin this story in a positive light for the employees in question. The calendar notification feature does not discriminate, but it also doesn't automatically leak data to an external source. So if, hypothetically, one believed a coworker was involved with a project the company was trying to keep hushed up (such as a search engine built conforming to the design constraints of the Chinese government, or an object recognition tool for military applications), one could keep an eye on the evolution of that project by turning on calendar notifications and observing what meetings that coworker is invited to. But if that coworker also puts "Doctor's appointment" on their work calendar, the observer will of course be notified about that also if the event is made (internal) public. Now, once the observer is notified, they may have chosen to leak to an external source "Hey, a name-notable VP appears to be having a meeting on Thursday titled 'PROJECT: DEFINITELY NOT FACILITATING CHINESE CENSORSHIP'." That doesn't imply they chose to then leak "And they have a doctor's appointment Friday." Google has made the claim the individual in question set up notifications, and those notifications may have caught medical appointments and family activites. Google has made the separate claim that some information was leaked externally. Google has notably not made the claim that doctor's appointments, family activities, etc. were leaked externally. ... and the privacy concerns we honor for people's personal lives do not necessarily extend to the work they're quietly doing on things the public may find unacceptable.