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It's not a perk, it's a liability. This was an option at pretty much every company I worked at and I never understood what moron would choose to put their perso

It's not a perk, it's a liability. This was an option at pretty much every company I worked at and I never understood what moron would choose to put their personal data/life on a corporate device (or connect their personal device to the corporate network and its management policy) with typical policies dictating that not only can the device be remotely wiped, it can also be remotely snooped. The only brief moment of this being acceptable was Samsung phones being able to have completely split personal/corporate profiles across 2 sims in a single phone and have 2 copies of each app, but that seems to have died. If your employer is managing the device you're choosing to also use for personal data, it's 100% your fault and 0% surprise when it backfires on you. If you work in tech and don't have a separate work phone+laptop and personal phone+laptop, you're either a founder or an idiot.

threatofrain 7y ago
It is a net perk because phone calling or mobile messaging is inevitably part of work and you don't want to buy your own separate phone. It's only awkward for anyone who isn't used to having two phones.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- LadyCailin 7y ago
  Calling and messaging are paid for by my company, and I can also sign in to my email. They have a program where I can get full access to all work resources, but it’s optional, and I will never sign up for that program, because exactly what’s being discussed here. But I still only have one phone, and they still pay for it, so.
  - thrwy20191203 7y ago
    Is the contract in your name and you pay the bill yourself and then expense it? Or is the contract in company's name they get full itemized bill from the carrier? If it is the latter, it sucks.
    - LadyCailin 7y ago
      They get the bill directly, but I'm not sure they can have access to the messaging or call data directly. I live in Europe, so I feel like the GDPR addresses this, but now that you mention it, I don't know this for sure.
0xEFF 7y ago
Over half of Google's workforce are contractors. Google does not provide a mobile device to contractors. The options for TVC's are to let Google control a personal device or take a significant productivity hit and opt-out of mobile email, chat, and docs.
- hvidgaard 7y ago
  Buy a "Google phone" and use it for that, keeping your private phone, well private. It's just the cost of doing business with them.
- mekane8 7y ago
  That's a really crappy policy if I'm understanding it right - not provide a mobile device but insist on completely managing one if they choose to use it for company business? What a shitty way to treat people working for you.
  - CoolGuySteve 7y ago
    It should be illegal. How much is your employer allowed to know about you or who you contact outside of work? The answer should be nothing but there's a moral hazard wherein employees can't do much about it without limiting their career.
  - zaroth 7y ago
    How else could corporate IT possibly do it? A contractor can deduct work expenses from income, a phone is just one item on a long list of things that will be deducted. If there is corporate information on a device, it would be a breach of their fiduciary responsibility not to manage that device and have the ability to remotely wipe that data.
    - chipotle_coyote 7y ago
      > If there is corporate information on a device, it would be a breach of their fiduciary responsibility not to manage that device and have the ability to remotely wipe that data. I don't think, in a legal sense, that's true. It feels like it comes from the same mindset that corporations have a "fiduciary responsibility" to their shareholders to always put profits above all else; in fact, there's nothing in corporate law or financial regulations that requires that at all. The IT department has responsibility for network and systems policies and company-owned equipment, and it's perfectly reasonable for them to have the ability to wipe data on that equipment or set policies that disallow personal devices on company networks at all. But they have no requirement -- and I would argue no business -- to wipe a non-company device just because someone added a corporate email account to it. Does that make it marginally more likely that someone could keep corporate email that they weren't supposed to? Sure. But there are other legal ways of handling that which aren't destructive to non-company property. No one would argue that a policy of "if you take physical work home, upon termination the company can set fire to your house to ensure all copies are destroyed" is enforceable.
mcguire 7y ago
"...or connect their personal device to the corporate network and its management policy..." I've done this. You are absolutely right.
endtime 7y ago
Moron here. I work for Google and use my work phone as my personal phone, via Android work profile, so the work stuff is siloed. This means I have less than full access to company resources, but I don't really want to read code or respond to bugs on my phone anyway. My understanding is that Google can't see the personal stuff. But it doesn't matter that much to me, personally, if they can (I'm not doing any exciting corporate activism, anything illegal, etc.). At least, it doesn't matter more than a couple grand a year plus the inconvenience of two phones. I'm not saying everyone should feel this way, and obviously some people value privacy more than I do, but that's the trade-off that makes sense for this idiot.
- bitcurious 7y ago
  I hope it also doesn’t matter to any of your friends. I would be pretty annoyed if I had a conversation with you and it ended up as property of google.
  - Hello71 7y ago
    if you're willing to assume that Google is willing to violate their presumably legally-enforceable policy that they will not view the items in the "personal profile", then one could assume that they would probably also be willing to read data from any Android device. so better tell all of your friends to never use Android or any other Google service.
    - freeone3000 7y ago
      Yes. This. Exactly.
    - gcbw3 7y ago
      You guys are insane. You signed something at work that "all data in google owned devices are property of google". Period. This is the same as using your company-provided computer for something else.
- michaelbuckbee 7y ago
  fwiw - Apple is also working on a similar setup to sandbox corporate apps from personal (with restrictions in between)
tyingq 7y ago
Android does support a work profile and "two copies of each app", with some limitations. https://developer.android.com/work/managed-profiles https://developer.android.com/work/managed-profiles

threatofrain 7y ago

It is a net perk because phone calling or mobile messaging is inevitably part of work and you don't want to buy your own separate phone. It's only awkward for anyone who isn't used to having two phones.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
LadyCailin 7y ago
Calling and messaging are paid for by my company, and I can also sign in to my email. They have a program where I can get full access to all work resources, but it’s optional, and I will never sign up for that program, because exactly what’s being discussed here. But I still only have one phone, and they still pay for it, so.
- thrwy20191203 7y ago
  Is the contract in your name and you pay the bill yourself and then expense it? Or is the contract in company's name they get full itemized bill from the carrier? If it is the latter, it sucks.
  - LadyCailin 7y ago
    They get the bill directly, but I'm not sure they can have access to the messaging or call data directly. I live in Europe, so I feel like the GDPR addresses this, but now that you mention it, I don't know this for sure.

0xEFF 7y ago

Over half of Google's workforce are contractors. Google does not provide a mobile device to contractors. The options for TVC's are to let Google control a personal device or take a significant productivity hit and opt-out of mobile email, chat, and docs.

hvidgaard 7y ago
Buy a "Google phone" and use it for that, keeping your private phone, well private. It's just the cost of doing business with them.
mekane8 7y ago
That's a really crappy policy if I'm understanding it right - not provide a mobile device but insist on completely managing one if they choose to use it for company business? What a shitty way to treat people working for you.
- CoolGuySteve 7y ago
  It should be illegal. How much is your employer allowed to know about you or who you contact outside of work? The answer should be nothing but there's a moral hazard wherein employees can't do much about it without limiting their career.
- zaroth 7y ago
  How else could corporate IT possibly do it? A contractor can deduct work expenses from income, a phone is just one item on a long list of things that will be deducted. If there is corporate information on a device, it would be a breach of their fiduciary responsibility not to manage that device and have the ability to remotely wipe that data.
  - chipotle_coyote 7y ago
    > If there is corporate information on a device, it would be a breach of their fiduciary responsibility not to manage that device and have the ability to remotely wipe that data. I don't think, in a legal sense, that's true. It feels like it comes from the same mindset that corporations have a "fiduciary responsibility" to their shareholders to always put profits above all else; in fact, there's nothing in corporate law or financial regulations that requires that at all. The IT department has responsibility for network and systems policies and company-owned equipment, and it's perfectly reasonable for them to have the ability to wipe data on that equipment or set policies that disallow personal devices on company networks at all. But they have no requirement -- and I would argue no business -- to wipe a non-company device just because someone added a corporate email account to it. Does that make it marginally more likely that someone could keep corporate email that they weren't supposed to? Sure. But there are other legal ways of handling that which aren't destructive to non-company property. No one would argue that a policy of "if you take physical work home, upon termination the company can set fire to your house to ensure all copies are destroyed" is enforceable.

mcguire 7y ago

"...or connect their personal device to the corporate network and its management policy..." I've done this. You are absolutely right.

endtime 7y ago

Moron here. I work for Google and use my work phone as my personal phone, via Android work profile, so the work stuff is siloed. This means I have less than full access to company resources, but I don't really want to read code or respond to bugs on my phone anyway. My understanding is that Google can't see the personal stuff. But it doesn't matter that much to me, personally, if they can (I'm not doing any exciting corporate activism, anything illegal, etc.). At least, it doesn't matter more than a couple grand a year plus the inconvenience of two phones. I'm not saying everyone should feel this way, and obviously some people value privacy more than I do, but that's the trade-off that makes sense for this idiot.

bitcurious 7y ago
I hope it also doesn’t matter to any of your friends. I would be pretty annoyed if I had a conversation with you and it ended up as property of google.
- Hello71 7y ago
  if you're willing to assume that Google is willing to violate their presumably legally-enforceable policy that they will not view the items in the "personal profile", then one could assume that they would probably also be willing to read data from any Android device. so better tell all of your friends to never use Android or any other Google service.
  - freeone3000 7y ago
    Yes. This. Exactly.
  - gcbw3 7y ago
    You guys are insane. You signed something at work that "all data in google owned devices are property of google". Period. This is the same as using your company-provided computer for something else.
michaelbuckbee 7y ago
fwiw - Apple is also working on a similar setup to sandbox corporate apps from personal (with restrictions in between)

tyingq 7y ago

Android does support a work profile and "two copies of each app", with some limitations. https://developer.android.com/work/managed-profiles https://developer.android.com/work/managed-profiles