7 ms·

I posted a message on the Unicode mailing list, which eventually lead to an proposal to accept a large number of new characters that encodes symbols used in the

I posted a message on the Unicode mailing list, which eventually lead to an proposal to accept a large number of new characters that encodes symbols used in the old 8 and 16-bit micros. My original question was specifically about the C64 character set, but we managed to get several others covered as well, including several symbols from the Atari ST character set. The proposal was accepted, and the work continues to create a new proposal covering the character sets of even more old computers. https://www.unicode.org/L2/L2019/19025-terminals-prop.pdf https://www.unicode.org/L2/L2019/19025-terminals-prop.pdf I'm quite happy that my modest question led to some real progress.

Baeocystin 7y ago
That is awesome! Nice work. :)
jimnotgym 7y ago
I'm disappointed to find that the Atari ST character set doesn't contain a bomb symbol. Obviously two entirely different things have been confused by my childhood mind.
- bradleyjg 7y ago
  Early macs had a bomb symbol. It was what showed up for the equivalent of the BSOD.
- gmac 7y ago
  Hmm. The Atari ST did display bombs when it crashed. The number of bombs was a hint about the cause. It always felt very alarming and had me scrambling for the 'off' switch, though. http://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=15500 http://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=15500
- lokedhs 7y ago
  The Atari ST did display bombs when an application crashed. But it was never part of the character set. It's a graphic that is displayed by the trap handler in the operating system. The number of bombs indicate the trap type, so three bombs means trap handler 3 (address error). The symbols that do exist, but was not included in the proposal was the Atari logo and the J.R. Dobbs picture. Both of which are copyrighted, which is why they are included.
  - ghostbrainalpha 7y ago
    These type of comments are why I come to Hacker News and waste so much time here. Thank you.
    - lokedhs 7y ago
      Thank you for the appreciation. The Atari ST was a very important computer for me when I was growing up, and I love talking about it.
eddieone 7y ago
These are the worst symbols though. ⭘ should be on ⏽ should be off
- guessmyname 7y ago
  Can you post a picture instead? Right now I can only see empty squares in your comment: https://i.imgur.com/zXAwnbK.png https://i.imgur.com/zXAwnbK.png — (I am using Safari 13.0.3 on macOS Catalina 10.15.1) --- Edit: After seeing the image posted by @iruoy — https://i.imgur.com/OH3QTXQ.png https://i.imgur.com/OH3QTXQ.png — I have to disagree with you because the circle represents a zero (low voltage - FALSE) and the vertical line represents a one (high voltage - TRUE). If you studied computer science, logic, electrical engineering, or attended any basic course on electronics you would know that ones-and-zeroes are the written representation of an electric current, in fact, they are the basics of computing: Bits. Here is more information about the power symbol: • https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bit • https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_symbol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_symbol • http://www.decisionsciencenews.com/2016/10/28/off-switch-remember-line-circle-mean-think-binary/ http://www.decisionsciencenews.com/2016/10/28/off-switch-rem...
  - iruoy 7y ago
    Works in latest Firefox on latest MacOS https://i.imgur.com/OH3QTXQ.png https://i.imgur.com/OH3QTXQ.png
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
  - squiggleblaz 7y ago
    Yeah, the circle represents a zero - but it isn't a zeno, and the line represents a one - but it isn't a one. They're graphics that seem removed from the meanings they represent. Semantically they're removed too, since turning a device on seems to have complex, multi-byte significance. And as graphics, the zero seems to represent "circuit connected" and the one seems to represent "circuit disconnected". Yet they have the exact opposite meanings! They're meant for public consumption after all.
slavik81 7y ago
This is absolutely fantastic. I was under the impression that the Unicode Consortium reviled box-drawing characters, but I find them incredibly useful for documenting code relating to grids.
- slavik81 7y ago
  If I'm mistaken about something, I would appreciate clarification. Is my mistake using box-drawing characters? Or is it thinking that they're disliked?
  - lokedhs 7y ago
    I've seen different opinions on the topic. I'm not sure there is anything single opinion of the Unicode Consortium here, but I'm not a member of the Consortium. What we can see is that these characters have become very popular and useful, so it doesn't really matter whether the original intent was to move these things to a higher level protocol. Today they are here, and they are useful. There was a discussion on the mailing list some time ago when there was a suggestion to add codes for underline, bold, italics etc. I can tell you that that is not a very popular idea.
    - mark-r 7y ago
      Sometimes characters were added to Unicode just because they already existed in another character set. The idea is that Unicode should support lossless round-trip conversions to any other character set. Box drawing characters were part of the DOS character sets that were carried over to Windows.
adhoc32 7y ago
real heroes don't wear capes

Baeocystin 7y ago

That is awesome! Nice work. :)

jimnotgym 7y ago

I'm disappointed to find that the Atari ST character set doesn't contain a bomb symbol. Obviously two entirely different things have been confused by my childhood mind.

bradleyjg 7y ago
Early macs had a bomb symbol. It was what showed up for the equivalent of the BSOD.
gmac 7y ago
Hmm. The Atari ST did display bombs when it crashed. The number of bombs was a hint about the cause. It always felt very alarming and had me scrambling for the 'off' switch, though. http://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=15500 http://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=15500
lokedhs 7y ago
The Atari ST did display bombs when an application crashed. But it was never part of the character set. It's a graphic that is displayed by the trap handler in the operating system. The number of bombs indicate the trap type, so three bombs means trap handler 3 (address error). The symbols that do exist, but was not included in the proposal was the Atari logo and the J.R. Dobbs picture. Both of which are copyrighted, which is why they are included.
- ghostbrainalpha 7y ago
  These type of comments are why I come to Hacker News and waste so much time here. Thank you.
  - lokedhs 7y ago
    Thank you for the appreciation. The Atari ST was a very important computer for me when I was growing up, and I love talking about it.

eddieone 7y ago

These are the worst symbols though. ⭘ should be on ⏽ should be off

guessmyname 7y ago
Can you post a picture instead? Right now I can only see empty squares in your comment: https://i.imgur.com/zXAwnbK.png https://i.imgur.com/zXAwnbK.png — (I am using Safari 13.0.3 on macOS Catalina 10.15.1) --- Edit: After seeing the image posted by @iruoy — https://i.imgur.com/OH3QTXQ.png https://i.imgur.com/OH3QTXQ.png — I have to disagree with you because the circle represents a zero (low voltage - FALSE) and the vertical line represents a one (high voltage - TRUE). If you studied computer science, logic, electrical engineering, or attended any basic course on electronics you would know that ones-and-zeroes are the written representation of an electric current, in fact, they are the basics of computing: Bits. Here is more information about the power symbol: • https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bit • https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_symbol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_symbol • http://www.decisionsciencenews.com/2016/10/28/off-switch-remember-line-circle-mean-think-binary/ http://www.decisionsciencenews.com/2016/10/28/off-switch-rem...
- iruoy 7y ago
  Works in latest Firefox on latest MacOS https://i.imgur.com/OH3QTXQ.png https://i.imgur.com/OH3QTXQ.png
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- squiggleblaz 7y ago
  Yeah, the circle represents a zero - but it isn't a zeno, and the line represents a one - but it isn't a one. They're graphics that seem removed from the meanings they represent. Semantically they're removed too, since turning a device on seems to have complex, multi-byte significance. And as graphics, the zero seems to represent "circuit connected" and the one seems to represent "circuit disconnected". Yet they have the exact opposite meanings! They're meant for public consumption after all.

slavik81 7y ago

This is absolutely fantastic. I was under the impression that the Unicode Consortium reviled box-drawing characters, but I find them incredibly useful for documenting code relating to grids.

slavik81 7y ago
If I'm mistaken about something, I would appreciate clarification. Is my mistake using box-drawing characters? Or is it thinking that they're disliked?
- lokedhs 7y ago
  I've seen different opinions on the topic. I'm not sure there is anything single opinion of the Unicode Consortium here, but I'm not a member of the Consortium. What we can see is that these characters have become very popular and useful, so it doesn't really matter whether the original intent was to move these things to a higher level protocol. Today they are here, and they are useful. There was a discussion on the mailing list some time ago when there was a suggestion to add codes for underline, bold, italics etc. I can tell you that that is not a very popular idea.
  - mark-r 7y ago
    Sometimes characters were added to Unicode just because they already existed in another character set. The idea is that Unicode should support lossless round-trip conversions to any other character set. Box drawing characters were part of the DOS character sets that were carried over to Windows.

adhoc32 7y ago

real heroes don't wear capes