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Looks like the FBI designated FaceApp as a threat because of its crazy data policy and its Russian origin. Even though I think it's a really shady app, that's a

by rauchp 7y ago

Looks like the FBI designated FaceApp as a threat because of its crazy data policy and its Russian origin. Even though I think it's a really shady app, that's a pretty low bar.

unityByFreedom 7y ago
It says potential threat, not threat, and according to this letter, the Russian government can access ISP data directly without request.
- ShorsHammer 7y ago
  Thankfully that doesn't happen anywhere else in the world. Australian government metadata requests was well over 300,000 last year, nearly 1000 requests a day all warrantless, can come from tiny local councils or horse racing orgs. Trust us, they say, there's oversight in hidden tribunals, they say.
  - freehunter 7y ago
    Yes all countries do it, but US intelligence doesn't just take into account the action, they take the actor as well. Australia is a friendly nation to the US and shares intelligence data with US intelligence agencies. What we see, they see and what they see, we see. Russia is not a friendly nation to the US and does not share intelligence with US intelligence agencies. The FBI isn't saying "normal people are at risk from FaceApp" but "US intelligence is at risk from the use of FaceApp". In the (very short) linked letter, it specifically calls out "elected officials, candidates, political campaigns, [and] political parties". Considering all US intelligence agencies unanimously agree that Russia already attacked US candidates and political parties in the past, saying "yeah but everyone does it" is about as off-topic of a remark as you can get. To my knowledge the FBI has never publicly disclosed Australia's efforts to meddle in US elections.
    - _jal 7y ago
      > saying "yeah but everyone does it" is about as off-topic of a remark as you can get I've seen this sort of "argument" a lot lately. Not sure why people think it communicates anything other than lazy cynicism. That everyone (to a rounding error) has sex does not mean that everyone has sex with everyone.
      - winfred 7y ago
        It's got an actual name: Whataboutism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
        LoLFactor 7y ago
        How amusing that it's most often associated with Russian propaganda.
    - ShorsHammer 7y ago
      How any US serving member is allowed to use facebook or random apps is beyond me. The entire premise here is absurd. Of course it is a risk, just like the app partially owned by tencent that one of the most popular sites in the world insists you install when browsing on mobile. Australians legally do metadata and spying better than everyone else on many metrics and then share it with the multiple eyes. Something to remember when the media is whipping up a threat frenzy. Given Australia's treatment of whistleblowers and slow descent into authoritarianism, I very much envy the few protections Americans take for granted.
- asdfasgasdgasdg 7y ago
  > It says potential threat, not threat Aren't all threats potential threats, until they are actual? I dunno, maybe the FBI has a formal delineation between potential threat, threat, and . . . whatever is after that. But I doubt it.
flattone 7y ago
policy standpoint that's a low bar but from a counter intelligence standpoint that's finger painting bar
TheRealPomax 7y ago
Not during an election year, at a point in time that sees _much_ heavier use of these apps than even 4 years ago, no.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
zkid18 7y ago
I think FaceApp should be hosted on an AWS-like infrastructure. Hosting in Russia is expensive and does not provide any advantages, such as dynamic routing that is crucial for world-wide app. Most developers use it to comply with Russian standards: you only need to store information about Russian users on Russian servers. In addition, currently in Russia there are no good alternatives for reliable cloud neural network inference. But I can’t understand the negative media about the application, based on the founder’s country of origin. I argue that this is discrimination because there is as yet no evidence of breach of confidentiality.
- freehunter 7y ago
  According to the article, FaceApp says they host in the United States, Singapore, Australia and Ireland. Whether that's true or not, I don't know. The problem the FBI has is no matter where the data is hosted, the Russian government has access to it as long as the Russian developers of FaceApp have access to it.
- debt 7y ago
  It’s worth noting that the heads of CIA, FBI, NSA, DHS and the Justice Department have all confirmed the Russian government are currently actively engaged in ongoing global disinformation campaigns propagated primarily on social media designed to sway elections in democracies abroad. It’s beyond dispute. The Russian government has breached confidentiality.
  - zkid18 7y ago
    US intelligence agencies do the same, no? The country intervening in most foreign elections is the United States with 81 interventions, followed by Russia (including the former Soviet Union) with 36 interventions from 1946 to 2000—an average of once in every nine competitive elections [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_electoral_intervention https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_electoral_intervention
    - debt 7y ago
      "US intelligence agencies do the same, no?" Yes, definitely, again another thing beyond dispute. Not sure what the point is you're trying to make though.
nl 7y ago
They haven't designated it as a threat. The headline is wrong.
r41nbowdash 7y ago
Yeah, I don't think it's about the data storage, as much as the possibility of backdooring your phone by a rogue state.

by rauchp 7y ago

Looks like the FBI designated FaceApp as a threat because of its crazy data policy and its Russian origin. Even though I think it's a really shady app, that's a pretty low bar.

unityByFreedom 7y ago

It says potential threat, not threat, and according to this letter, the Russian government can access ISP data directly without request.

ShorsHammer 7y ago
Thankfully that doesn't happen anywhere else in the world. Australian government metadata requests was well over 300,000 last year, nearly 1000 requests a day all warrantless, can come from tiny local councils or horse racing orgs. Trust us, they say, there's oversight in hidden tribunals, they say.
- freehunter 7y ago
  Yes all countries do it, but US intelligence doesn't just take into account the action, they take the actor as well. Australia is a friendly nation to the US and shares intelligence data with US intelligence agencies. What we see, they see and what they see, we see. Russia is not a friendly nation to the US and does not share intelligence with US intelligence agencies. The FBI isn't saying "normal people are at risk from FaceApp" but "US intelligence is at risk from the use of FaceApp". In the (very short) linked letter, it specifically calls out "elected officials, candidates, political campaigns, [and] political parties". Considering all US intelligence agencies unanimously agree that Russia already attacked US candidates and political parties in the past, saying "yeah but everyone does it" is about as off-topic of a remark as you can get. To my knowledge the FBI has never publicly disclosed Australia's efforts to meddle in US elections.
  - _jal 7y ago
    > saying "yeah but everyone does it" is about as off-topic of a remark as you can get I've seen this sort of "argument" a lot lately. Not sure why people think it communicates anything other than lazy cynicism. That everyone (to a rounding error) has sex does not mean that everyone has sex with everyone.
    - winfred 7y ago
      It's got an actual name: Whataboutism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
      - LoLFactor 7y ago
        How amusing that it's most often associated with Russian propaganda.
  - ShorsHammer 7y ago
    How any US serving member is allowed to use facebook or random apps is beyond me. The entire premise here is absurd. Of course it is a risk, just like the app partially owned by tencent that one of the most popular sites in the world insists you install when browsing on mobile. Australians legally do metadata and spying better than everyone else on many metrics and then share it with the multiple eyes. Something to remember when the media is whipping up a threat frenzy. Given Australia's treatment of whistleblowers and slow descent into authoritarianism, I very much envy the few protections Americans take for granted.
asdfasgasdgasdg 7y ago
> It says potential threat, not threat Aren't all threats potential threats, until they are actual? I dunno, maybe the FBI has a formal delineation between potential threat, threat, and . . . whatever is after that. But I doubt it.

flattone 7y ago

policy standpoint that's a low bar but from a counter intelligence standpoint that's finger painting bar

TheRealPomax 7y ago

Not during an election year, at a point in time that sees _much_ heavier use of these apps than even 4 years ago, no.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

zkid18 7y ago

I think FaceApp should be hosted on an AWS-like infrastructure. Hosting in Russia is expensive and does not provide any advantages, such as dynamic routing that is crucial for world-wide app. Most developers use it to comply with Russian standards: you only need to store information about Russian users on Russian servers. In addition, currently in Russia there are no good alternatives for reliable cloud neural network inference. But I can’t understand the negative media about the application, based on the founder’s country of origin. I argue that this is discrimination because there is as yet no evidence of breach of confidentiality.

freehunter 7y ago
According to the article, FaceApp says they host in the United States, Singapore, Australia and Ireland. Whether that's true or not, I don't know. The problem the FBI has is no matter where the data is hosted, the Russian government has access to it as long as the Russian developers of FaceApp have access to it.
debt 7y ago
It’s worth noting that the heads of CIA, FBI, NSA, DHS and the Justice Department have all confirmed the Russian government are currently actively engaged in ongoing global disinformation campaigns propagated primarily on social media designed to sway elections in democracies abroad. It’s beyond dispute. The Russian government has breached confidentiality.
- zkid18 7y ago
  US intelligence agencies do the same, no? The country intervening in most foreign elections is the United States with 81 interventions, followed by Russia (including the former Soviet Union) with 36 interventions from 1946 to 2000—an average of once in every nine competitive elections [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_electoral_intervention https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_electoral_intervention
  - debt 7y ago
    "US intelligence agencies do the same, no?" Yes, definitely, again another thing beyond dispute. Not sure what the point is you're trying to make though.

nl 7y ago

They haven't designated it as a threat. The headline is wrong.

r41nbowdash 7y ago

Yeah, I don't think it's about the data storage, as much as the possibility of backdooring your phone by a rogue state.