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TikTok curbed reach for people with disabilities

• deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
• justwalt 7y ago
  The “only visible in home country” clause does seem to support TikTok’s claim that they were doing it for the hidden users benefit. It’s hard to say whether or not the policy has a net positive or negative effect. If you browse the recommended posts page on the app, it’s pretty much guaranteed that you’ll see someone who falls under the named categories from the article (queer, fat, disabled). They’re almost always showered with support and positivity in the comment sections.
  • aaron695 7y ago
    > The “only visible in home country” clause does seem to support TikTok’s claim that they were doing it for the hidden users benefit. This is actually clever. It allows the person to use local laws and local policing and even local social constructs. It would actually work. > For people with an actual or assumed disability, this means that instead of reaching a global audience of one billion, their videos reached a maximum of 5.5 million people. This sentence is sad.
  • specialp 7y ago
    I've found the comments on TikTok quite positive in general. Especially with these "vulnerable" groups of people. I think it is due to the younger user base. It seems that people that have grown up with social media nearly their entire lives know how to be more polite, and just handle it better all around.
    • judge2020 7y ago
      It feels like social media breeds you to know that anything you say or do can come back to you as a "viral" moment, whether it be on sites like Twitter or Reddit (r/IdiotsInCars has surged in popularity) or in real life since it's as hard as ever to separate your online presence from your regular life.
• privateSFacct 7y ago
  Is this article pushing for getting quirky viral clips of folks with down syndrome etc pushed more broadly into the feed? Tiktok is very viral oriented - and the net is not that friendly - I hope netzpolitik are willing to provide support for folks facing attack and/or ridicule as a result of going viral - not everyone is in a good place for that (even youtube stars going through crazy burnout / meltdown cycles).
  • mynameisvlad 7y ago
    > not everyone is in a good place for that (even youtube stars going through crazy burnout / meltdown cycles). Then these platforms should actually punish the people attacking, not the victims. Why is it the victim's fault that people around them aren't mature enough to treat them like a human being? Why is it their fault that they're being attacked for being themselves? Why should they be the ones that are being punished for being different? What TikTok is doing is literally victim-blaming, and it's not ok.
    • privateSFacct 7y ago
      Not every child (of any type) is helped by a global audience. So we are clear - these are for profit platforms exploiting / providing a free service depending on your perspective for content providers and users -> usually with the goal of marketing to them or otherwise monetizing them. Now mix in folks with development disabilities and a history of exploitation / abuse in this area generally. That down kid gyrating so you can laugh and show your co-workers is not an adult making a fully informed decision. What these for profit platforms are doing is in many cases literally exploitative -> with the rights to monetize the content held by the platform, so you can laugh in the morning - and it's not OK.
      • mynameisvlad 7y ago
        Who said this was limited to children, anyway? You have to be 13+ to join as per COPPA, and age is never a part of their own equation as to whether a user is vulnerable or not. Everyone in the article is over 18, so this is clearly being applied to adults. In any case, none of what you said actually responds to my questions -- why are the victims the ones being punished here? What did they do to deserve being silenced other than being themselves? Yes, what these platforms are doing is exploitative, and that's a real separate issue that needs to be solved. But the right solution isn't this victim-blaming discrimination. It's far easier to argue that TikTok et al are exploitative, it's much harder to discuss the proper solution to the issue that the thread is talking about. Let's keep it to that.
• subject117 7y ago
  TikTok went the wrong way about preventing cyber bullying against the disabled. In this situation it would have been better to do nothing at all. If they had just let disabled individuals get cyber bullied they could have avoided this negative press altogether.
  • mliker 7y ago
    Yes, but then the disabled individuals would have been mentally traumatized. Companies shouldn't avoid doing things just to avoid negative press. They're providing a service for the people.
    • Mirioron 7y ago
      I think that is the parent poster's point. They tried to do something that to them seemed like it would help people, but ended up in a scandal instead. This is how apathy spreads.
      • qxnqd 7y ago
        Because it's tiktok. Tiktok is Chinese so whatever they do they will be criticised.
        • slimed 7y ago
          While I'm not surprised that a Chinese company was the first to do this, the criticism has nothing to do with them being Chinese. Show me an American or European social media company that discriminates in this way and I will show you the same level outrage.
      • mliker 7y ago
        No, that's not the parent poster's point. From parent post: > If they had just let disabled individuals get cyber bullied they could have avoided this negative press altogether.
        • 7y ago
• unglaublich 7y ago
  Sounds like how social media works in general: highlight what is most aspired; tuck away what deviates from these ideals.
  • ctrl-j 7y ago
    > TikTok, the fast-growing social network from China, has used unusual measures to protect supposedly vulnerable users. The platform instructed its moderators to mark videos of people with disabilities and limit their reach. Queer and fat people also ended up on a list of „special users“ whose videos were regarded as a bullying risk by default and capped in their reach – regardless of the content. I'm certainly not privy to all the inner workings of other platforms, but this doesn't sound like what happens on other social media sites...
• avocado4 7y ago
  It's not socially OK to be disabled in China. There's a very strong pressure to conform to a certain standard, e.g. use a bleach to whiten skin for women, dress "appropriately", be able bodied, be Han, etc.
  • filoleg 7y ago
    No idea why you are being downvoted. While I cannot comment on skin whitening and being Han (never lived in China), I can absolutely attest to the rest of your points that similar things can be observed in Russia (which to me, in a lot of ways, seems to be very similar to China culturally). If you have a child with disabilities, it isn't, unfortunately, socially acceptable to treat them the exact same way you would a normal kid in public. People prefer not to mention their relatives with disabilities and sort of "hide" them from the public eye. And if you try the opposite, people would definitely look at you weirdly. Same goes for dressing "appropriately", except you will also get a lot of nasty comments. There were no special-ed classes in my school (I went all the way from elementary to high school), and I have never seen a person with disabilities in my school, despite the fact that it was a large school (but we all still kinda knew each other, at least on a surface level). And I find it extremely unlikely that my hometown and my school somehow had such great odds, that there was not a single student with disabilities in a school of ~1.2k people simply due to the fact that everyone in town was that healthy.
• rmason 7y ago
  I've never met anyone in real life with Tourette's, just as characters in a TV show that's trying to be edgy. But in browsing TikTok I've met several people with Tourette's and learned about their lives. The majority of them whistle and don't use many profanities and this was a revelation to me. Also a fair number of BBW women who are both sexy and hilarious. But what I haven't seen at all are overweight men come to think of it. I think that if TikTok wants to protect those under 18 from bullying it's a less than perfect solution. Perhaps they should target the bullies for banning instead? But for adults it's clearly discrimination and they should stop. Can you imagine TV never airing Jackie Gleason, Benny Hill or Chris Farrelly?
  • msla 7y ago
    https://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/18/health/the-tics-of-tourettes-often-go-undiagnosed.html https://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/18/health/the-tics-of-touret... There's a lot of undiagnosed Tourette's out there, probably because coprolalia (shouting curse words involuntarily) is the best-known symptom even though it's extremely rare even among people who have Tourette's: > In his report, Dr. Samuel H. Zinner, a pediatrician at the University of Washington specializing in developmental and behavioral problems, points out that the syndrome "often goes undiagnosed or misdiagnosed." > "Misconceptions about this tic disorder are customary," he adds, "with the syndrome often perceived as characterized by bizarre, fitful behaviors or comical outbursts of uncontrollable profanity." > The fact is that "relatively few patients yell out obscenities," Dr. Zinner said, adding that "most patients are affected only mildly and usually escape notice," even by their doctors. Complicating the diagnostic puzzle is the ability of patients, consciously or otherwise, to suppress their tics when expressing them could be embarrassing, as would occur in visits to the doctor. [snip] > Dr. Zinner says the disorder is far more common than is generally recognized, even by the Tourette Syndrome Association, which estimates that 1 person in 2,000 is affected. Rather, recent studies suggest that the real number of those with chronic tics is more like 1 in 100, suggesting that 750,000 children in this country have Tourette's. The disorder affects four times as many boys as girls and often runs in families. https://www.empr.com/home/tools/patient-fact-sheets/tourette-syndrome-patient-information-fact-sheet/2/ https://www.empr.com/home/tools/patient-fact-sheets/tourette... > Although coprolalia affects fewer than 15% of people with Tourette syndrome, a common misconception is that all sufferers display this symptom. As for hiding the disabled, there's clearly a spectrum. I agree that children have to be handled differently from adults, but I also think that older children have to be handled differently from younger ones, which is probably beyond what a platform can reasonably police. Reliably distinguishing over-18 from under-18 is hard enough.
• aaron695 7y ago
  Relevant XKCD - https://xkcd.com/1357/ https://xkcd.com/1357/
  • slimed 7y ago
    Actually it's illegal in the U.S. and Europe to "show people the door" because of a medical disability.
    • jessaustin 7y ago
      Although the original xkcd is simply wrong, it's possible that parent post is irony in order to illustrate that?
      • juped 7y ago
        I don't know what the original intent may have been, but this is the only reading that makes sense.
    • baroffoos 7y ago
      I wonder if in this case tiktok is actually in violation of discrimination laws.
  • juped 7y ago
    This is perhaps the only post I've ever seen where this "relevant XKCD" is relevant.
• vmchale 7y ago
  Seems to use the German way to punctuate quotations even though it's an English article :)
• deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
• 40acres 7y ago
  Interesting because there is a recent tiktok meme going around about being socially accepted (people coming out to their parents, romantic insecurities, teenage pregnancy, etc.) and its really heartwarming and endearing. One thing I've noticed about the younger generation is they definitely seem less harsh when it comes to bullying in general then my generation (I'm 28) at the same age. Although the individual cases of bullying seem more intense.
• wlll 7y ago
  Nothing about this sounds like it is to protect people, and everything about it sounds to me that they are just trying to minimize the selected groups.
• nodemaker 7y ago
  Finally a company that is sensible and free from virtue signalling bs from silicon valley who in fact end up doing more social damage contrary to what they claim!
• blamelessness 7y ago
  TikTok is a blight upon the senses, and instead of asking the question of how to make it better, I only question why would I ever want to care? I don't want an endless intrusive chain of jump cut video clips, each lasting five seconds. Most of it is poorly executed, tedious failed attempts at slapstick. The rest is preachy rants from cranky egotists. I'm exposed to lots of strangers, homeless panhandlers, commuters. In real life, I have never invited a five second converstation from any of them, and 99% of the time, no smart person ever does.