4 ms·

Interesting point, although I hesitate to see this as an effective counterpoint. People change, perceptions of people change, and those who were once maligned c

by ramzyo 7y ago

Interesting point, although I hesitate to see this as an effective counterpoint. People change, perceptions of people change, and those who were once maligned can become beloved, while those who were once beloved can become maligned. Bill Gates has followed the maligned to beloved arch over the last 25 years - it's easy for me to see how Mark could follow this same trajectory given that he's relatively early in his career.

kelnos 7y ago
I wouldn't call Gates "beloved", at least not in all circles. I consider his work with his foundation as basically table stakes in society for someone who has made his fortune from illegal, anti-competitive practices that damaged an entire industry. Beyond that, while I'll certainly admit that government has a ton of problems, I'm not sure that the best model for funding -- for example -- research into various diseases is to put decisions under the control of rich people in the private sector, no matter how "reformed" and generous they seem. Or that super-rich people deserve to have praised philanthropic legacies because they managed to game the system during some point in their lives at the expense of income inequality and unfair markets. Granted, Gates doing good with his money is orders of magnitude better than him sitting on it doing nothing, but I don't think he deserves all the praise he's been getting, given his background.
- minblaster 7y ago
  I agree. It’s amazing how easily people slip into the ends justifying the means. Yes, he’s contributing now. Doesn’t excuse the practices that got him there.
  - ramzyo 7y ago
    It's a tough thing you're hitting on - definitely something I wrestle with personally with respect to people who follow career arcs similar to Gates'. Personally, I don't believe the ends ever justify the means, although in admiring Gates today for the work he does I don't feel that I'm doing that nor excusing him for his past. Would I ever look to young Gates as a role model? No. Gates of today, yes. I imagine I could think of Zuckerberg the same way one day if he has a long enough career.
- ethbro 7y ago
  Rich people tend to be more beloved after they retire from actively running their companies. See: Gates, Morgan, Carnegie
- ramzyo 7y ago
  Yeah, good points. With regards to having a praised philanthropic legacy at odds with massive wealth accumulation earlier in a career at the expense of income inequality and unfair markets - I don't see those as needing to be mutually exclusive. I personally don't see one's legacy as a singular thing, there can be good parts and bad parts (whatever one's definition of "good" and "bad" are), some worth admiring and some worth detesting. Gates has done things on both sides over the course of a career, I'm hopeful that Zuckerberg will model himself more after Gates over a similar length of time.

by ramzyo 7y ago

kelnos 7y ago

I wouldn't call Gates "beloved", at least not in all circles. I consider his work with his foundation as basically table stakes in society for someone who has made his fortune from illegal, anti-competitive practices that damaged an entire industry. Beyond that, while I'll certainly admit that government has a ton of problems, I'm not sure that the best model for funding -- for example -- research into various diseases is to put decisions under the control of rich people in the private sector, no matter how "reformed" and generous they seem. Or that super-rich people deserve to have praised philanthropic legacies because they managed to game the system during some point in their lives at the expense of income inequality and unfair markets. Granted, Gates doing good with his money is orders of magnitude better than him sitting on it doing nothing, but I don't think he deserves all the praise he's been getting, given his background.

minblaster 7y ago
I agree. It’s amazing how easily people slip into the ends justifying the means. Yes, he’s contributing now. Doesn’t excuse the practices that got him there.
- ramzyo 7y ago
  It's a tough thing you're hitting on - definitely something I wrestle with personally with respect to people who follow career arcs similar to Gates'. Personally, I don't believe the ends ever justify the means, although in admiring Gates today for the work he does I don't feel that I'm doing that nor excusing him for his past. Would I ever look to young Gates as a role model? No. Gates of today, yes. I imagine I could think of Zuckerberg the same way one day if he has a long enough career.
ethbro 7y ago
Rich people tend to be more beloved after they retire from actively running their companies. See: Gates, Morgan, Carnegie
ramzyo 7y ago
Yeah, good points. With regards to having a praised philanthropic legacy at odds with massive wealth accumulation earlier in a career at the expense of income inequality and unfair markets - I don't see those as needing to be mutually exclusive. I personally don't see one's legacy as a singular thing, there can be good parts and bad parts (whatever one's definition of "good" and "bad" are), some worth admiring and some worth detesting. Gates has done things on both sides over the course of a career, I'm hopeful that Zuckerberg will model himself more after Gates over a similar length of time.