6 ms·

Sure, but I'm not sure the answer would be relevant. As an analogy, just because you haven't used your first aid kit doesn't mean you won't one day need it. T

Sure, but I'm not sure the answer would be relevant. As an analogy, just because you haven't used your first aid kit doesn't mean you won't one day need it. To the contrary, we have many examples of countries that left the first aid kit behind only to realize they desperately needed it.

shadowgovt 7y ago
But we're not talking about first aid kits, we're talking about guns. And I think the burden of proof is on those who claim freedom of private firearm ownership works as an anti-tyranny deterrant to play around in the historical fiction realm of how Venezuela, Iraq, Hong Kong, et. al would have turned out differently with a more armed populace (remembering to factor in the possible scenario "Basically the same as it did, only with an awful lot more death when the entrenched military power ramped up the violence level to deal with a populace that could shoot back"). It's probably also relevant in that historical fiction direction to ask whether the "background" level of civilian peacetime death would have been higher or lower and by how much. Ubiquitous firearm ownership in a society is a bit of a wildcard.
- hcurtiss 7y ago
  I don't necessarily disagree, but neither would I call it "historical fiction." Armed populaces have fought back against their governments repeatedly throughout history. In any event, I'm one of the guys who would rather go down shooting than in a gas chamber. And, yes, that kind of liberty comes at a price.
  - shadowgovt 7y ago
    ... but it's a price generally paid by people other than the person who is armed in peacetime.
    - hcurtiss 7y ago
      I disagree. Fortunately for me, I have the benefit of the Second Amendment, which shifts the burden squarely to those who would deny the right, presumably by further constitutional amendment.
      - shadowgovt 7y ago
        Support for repeal of the 2nd Amendment is at 20%, which is far higher than I, for one, would anticipate for a fundamental Constitutional right. For comparison, 12% of Americans answered "Do you agree or disagree? Homosexual couples should have the right to marry one another?" with "Agree" in 1988.
    - CompanionCuuube 7y ago
      No, it really isn't. The majority of the gun deaths in the US belong to suicides compared to homicides.

shadowgovt 7y ago

But we're not talking about first aid kits, we're talking about guns. And I think the burden of proof is on those who claim freedom of private firearm ownership works as an anti-tyranny deterrant to play around in the historical fiction realm of how Venezuela, Iraq, Hong Kong, et. al would have turned out differently with a more armed populace (remembering to factor in the possible scenario "Basically the same as it did, only with an awful lot more death when the entrenched military power ramped up the violence level to deal with a populace that could shoot back"). It's probably also relevant in that historical fiction direction to ask whether the "background" level of civilian peacetime death would have been higher or lower and by how much. Ubiquitous firearm ownership in a society is a bit of a wildcard.

hcurtiss 7y ago
I don't necessarily disagree, but neither would I call it "historical fiction." Armed populaces have fought back against their governments repeatedly throughout history. In any event, I'm one of the guys who would rather go down shooting than in a gas chamber. And, yes, that kind of liberty comes at a price.
- shadowgovt 7y ago
  ... but it's a price generally paid by people other than the person who is armed in peacetime.
  - hcurtiss 7y ago
    I disagree. Fortunately for me, I have the benefit of the Second Amendment, which shifts the burden squarely to those who would deny the right, presumably by further constitutional amendment.
    - shadowgovt 7y ago
      Support for repeal of the 2nd Amendment is at 20%, which is far higher than I, for one, would anticipate for a fundamental Constitutional right. For comparison, 12% of Americans answered "Do you agree or disagree? Homosexual couples should have the right to marry one another?" with "Agree" in 1988.
  - CompanionCuuube 7y ago
    No, it really isn't. The majority of the gun deaths in the US belong to suicides compared to homicides.