5 ms·

I believe what you’re describing is nation wide and doesn’t have anything to do with SF.

by StuffedParrot 7y ago

mc32 7y ago
It’s the frequency and brazenness of the crimes that’s out of line with respect to other stats.
- StuffedParrot 7y ago
  Sure, but the underlying difference is that people actually know their rights, not that SF is somehow soft on crime as implied.
  - Jamwinner 7y ago
    In most places people can be stopped. Mega business tends not to chase them because they can absorb the costs, making possible litigtion not worth it. The small business owner is the one made powerless by these laws, which are, indeed, different from the rest of the country.
    - kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
      Their customers absorb the costs. Always.
  - WarDores 7y ago
    The right to steal unimpeded?
  - mc32 7y ago
    It’s almost as if you’re wanting to imply shoplifting is a right. They are not imploring a right. I could make s citizens arrest under my rights but people will tell you, it’s a losing proposition because you subject yourself to other frivolous claims that take money and time to clear up. So the reason people aren’t detained for police is because police will do very little in these cases because they are classed as misdemeanors. So why risk lawsuits, etc. when there is no upside?
    - coreless 7y ago
      > I could make s citizens arrest under my rights Very debatable. If you as a non-LEO attempt to detain someone who you suspect of having committed a crime, and they feel threatened, you could easily end up in jail. “They did a crime” does not, in fact, give you the right to crime too. Edit: Can someone help me out? I’ve posted a bunch of controversial opinions in this thread, so why is the one factual claim the thing getting downvoted to oblivion without comment? Am I somehow wrong about this? Like... can I actually crime someone just because they crimed someone else first and I don’t want them to get away with it? I need to know this.
      - jnosCo 7y ago
        https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=PEN&sectionNum=837 https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySectio...
      - chrisseaton 7y ago
        > so why is the one factual claim It's not factual - it's false. > Am I somehow wrong about this? .. can I actually crime someone Making a reasonable citizen's arrest is not a crime. That's what you have wrong. (And you don't 'crime' someone, that's a noun not a verb.)
  - anxman 7y ago
    Except SF is soft on crime ... we have the lowest arrest and conviction rate in all of California.
dx87 7y ago
Most companies tell their employees to not stop shoplifters for because they don't want to risk a lawsuit, not because they legally can't do it. I've seen loss prevention employees at my local Target detain shoplifters until the police arrive. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shopkeeper%27s_privilege https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shopkeeper%27s_privilege
- everdrive 7y ago
  Whether or not this is on the employer's mind, I also can't imagine risking getting shot over my $12-$14 an hour retail job.
  - dx87 7y ago
    My retired grandfather works at Wal-Mart part time just to get out of the house, and he said the same thing. He was working on black friday last year and was assigned to a display where the item was limited to one per customer. He said a big guy came up to him and asked what my grandfather would do if he tried to take more than 1. My grandfather told him that they don't pay him enough to try and stop people from breaking the rules, so the guy grabbed an armful of the item and left.
  - coreless 7y ago
    Well, just imagine that you can’t risk losing your $12/hr job, either.
    - everdrive 7y ago
      One of the few upsides about a $12 an hour job is that it's easy to replace.
      - ceejayoz 7y ago
        Not everywhere, not for everyone, and if you're making $12/hour, there's a decent chance a day or two out of work is going to put you in the red if you're not already.

I believe what you’re describing is nation wide and doesn’t have anything to do with SF.

mc32 7y ago

It’s the frequency and brazenness of the crimes that’s out of line with respect to other stats.

StuffedParrot 7y ago
Sure, but the underlying difference is that people actually know their rights, not that SF is somehow soft on crime as implied.
- Jamwinner 7y ago
  In most places people can be stopped. Mega business tends not to chase them because they can absorb the costs, making possible litigtion not worth it. The small business owner is the one made powerless by these laws, which are, indeed, different from the rest of the country.
  - kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
    Their customers absorb the costs. Always.
- WarDores 7y ago
  The right to steal unimpeded?
- mc32 7y ago
  It’s almost as if you’re wanting to imply shoplifting is a right. They are not imploring a right. I could make s citizens arrest under my rights but people will tell you, it’s a losing proposition because you subject yourself to other frivolous claims that take money and time to clear up. So the reason people aren’t detained for police is because police will do very little in these cases because they are classed as misdemeanors. So why risk lawsuits, etc. when there is no upside?
  - coreless 7y ago
    > I could make s citizens arrest under my rights Very debatable. If you as a non-LEO attempt to detain someone who you suspect of having committed a crime, and they feel threatened, you could easily end up in jail. “They did a crime” does not, in fact, give you the right to crime too. Edit: Can someone help me out? I’ve posted a bunch of controversial opinions in this thread, so why is the one factual claim the thing getting downvoted to oblivion without comment? Am I somehow wrong about this? Like... can I actually crime someone just because they crimed someone else first and I don’t want them to get away with it? I need to know this.
    - jnosCo 7y ago
      https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=PEN&sectionNum=837 https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySectio...
    - chrisseaton 7y ago
      > so why is the one factual claim It's not factual - it's false. > Am I somehow wrong about this? .. can I actually crime someone Making a reasonable citizen's arrest is not a crime. That's what you have wrong. (And you don't 'crime' someone, that's a noun not a verb.)
- anxman 7y ago
  Except SF is soft on crime ... we have the lowest arrest and conviction rate in all of California.

dx87 7y ago

Most companies tell their employees to not stop shoplifters for because they don't want to risk a lawsuit, not because they legally can't do it. I've seen loss prevention employees at my local Target detain shoplifters until the police arrive. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shopkeeper%27s_privilege https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shopkeeper%27s_privilege

everdrive 7y ago
Whether or not this is on the employer's mind, I also can't imagine risking getting shot over my $12-$14 an hour retail job.
- dx87 7y ago
  My retired grandfather works at Wal-Mart part time just to get out of the house, and he said the same thing. He was working on black friday last year and was assigned to a display where the item was limited to one per customer. He said a big guy came up to him and asked what my grandfather would do if he tried to take more than 1. My grandfather told him that they don't pay him enough to try and stop people from breaking the rules, so the guy grabbed an armful of the item and left.
- coreless 7y ago
  Well, just imagine that you can’t risk losing your $12/hr job, either.
  - everdrive 7y ago
    One of the few upsides about a $12 an hour job is that it's easy to replace.
    - ceejayoz 7y ago
      Not everywhere, not for everyone, and if you're making $12/hour, there's a decent chance a day or two out of work is going to put you in the red if you're not already.