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Your first 3 points reassembles too much to embedded programming + electronics. And no, there is not just a few or no-one of them: it's an entire industry. I do

by scoutt 7y ago

Your first 3 points reassembles too much to embedded programming + electronics. And no, there is not just a few or no-one of them: it's an entire industry. I do it all day long and I don't feel like I'm hacking if I know and understand what I am doing. You don't need to necessarily code to hack. You can hack with just electronics. Perhaps you are too inclined to java or upper layers of abstraction.

javajosh 7y ago
I disagree, but I think there's something here worth figuring out. Just like particle physicists aren't the only real scientists because their objects are the smallest ones, low-level programming (and FPGA/electronics work) isn't the only kind of hacking. People hacking genes with CRISPR are still hackers even though there are also people hacking the smaller components (at several levels of zoom) of those systems. Look, personally I want really clean memory layouts and elegant lead routing, simple causal chains, and open, verifiable designs in hardware. Even without that I would like to understand DRAM refresh protocols, Bluetooth, USB, and every detail of how PCI works. It's not that I don't want to, it's that I don't have time. (And honestly it's such a mess "down there" I'd really like someone to clean it up before I get in there.) Re Java: after using Python+MyPy I've never appreciated Java more. I've read the JVM spec and the language spec more than once; I'm sort of a "JVM hacker", if you will. I will happily edit a class file with a hex editor to achieve an effect. It's a simplified machine that is fully specified; it's a kind of opinionated VM that, unlike it's Xen counterparts, attempts to jettison some of the annoying stuff from real machines. Also ironically, Java was originally intended for embedded systems.
- scoutt 7y ago
  I was just referring to your 3 definitions of hacking... To hack doesn't necessarily mean to go particle-level or low-level, or learn something from the bottom-up or master some field. And your first comment also gave me the impression that you think hacking can happen only at low-levels, like embedded or electronics. Manipulating and hex-editing a binary... I call it a hack, and congrats, it seems like you are doing it already. Read (or watch) The Martian for one hack after the other, at several levels and different fields.

by scoutt 7y ago

javajosh 7y ago

I disagree, but I think there's something here worth figuring out. Just like particle physicists aren't the only real scientists because their objects are the smallest ones, low-level programming (and FPGA/electronics work) isn't the only kind of hacking. People hacking genes with CRISPR are still hackers even though there are also people hacking the smaller components (at several levels of zoom) of those systems. Look, personally I want really clean memory layouts and elegant lead routing, simple causal chains, and open, verifiable designs in hardware. Even without that I would like to understand DRAM refresh protocols, Bluetooth, USB, and every detail of how PCI works. It's not that I don't want to, it's that I don't have time. (And honestly it's such a mess "down there" I'd really like someone to clean it up before I get in there.) Re Java: after using Python+MyPy I've never appreciated Java more. I've read the JVM spec and the language spec more than once; I'm sort of a "JVM hacker", if you will. I will happily edit a class file with a hex editor to achieve an effect. It's a simplified machine that is fully specified; it's a kind of opinionated VM that, unlike it's Xen counterparts, attempts to jettison some of the annoying stuff from real machines. Also ironically, Java was originally intended for embedded systems.

scoutt 7y ago
I was just referring to your 3 definitions of hacking... To hack doesn't necessarily mean to go particle-level or low-level, or learn something from the bottom-up or master some field. And your first comment also gave me the impression that you think hacking can happen only at low-levels, like embedded or electronics. Manipulating and hex-editing a binary... I call it a hack, and congrats, it seems like you are doing it already. Read (or watch) The Martian for one hack after the other, at several levels and different fields.