4 ms·

First of all, making something illegal does not make it disappear, and you're also grossly overestimating the occurrence (as are the people calling for clear ba

First of all, making something illegal does not make it disappear, and you're also grossly overestimating the occurrence (as are the people calling for clear backpacks) of school shootings. The vast majority of shootings are between criminal gangs - making the guns illegal will not magically make criminals into upstanding citizens. Consider that the news cycle and FUD have created a terrible availability bias in our country that increasingly leads to draconian actions like those mentioned in the article. https://quillette.com/2019/11/29/the-availability-heuristic-and-mass-shooting-fears/ https://quillette.com/2019/11/29/the-availability-heuristic-...

wbronitsky 7y ago
One school shooting is far too many. I reject your argument vehemently. We are talking about murdered children.
- Kaiyou 7y ago
  One school kid being run over by a car is far too many. We should ban cars!
- sojournerc 7y ago
  What was I arguing? I merely pointed towards a well known psychological bias that's resulting in feel-good measures that do little to ensure _actual_ safety. There are many more risks to our children we should consider before this one, and there's only so much political capital to do it. Authoritarianism is one of those risks...
slothtrop 7y ago
> you're also grossly overestimating the occurrence The bodycount might not be "spectacular" but the rate of school shootings in the U.S. dwarfs other developed countries. Fatalities 200+ so far. At any rate, you don't know what they were 'estimating' exactly. > The vast majority of shootings are between criminal gangs - making the guns illegal will not magically make criminals into upstanding citizens. Criminals retrieve their weapons through underground networks. School shooters do not. They're just students. They've either grabbed what was lying around at home or bought them. Such that, accessibility to school shooters is hampered were it the case that legal distribution were more restricted. Add to the fact, circulation of guns in the underground is only possible and bloated because of the sheet number of legal guns.
- goodluckchuck 7y ago
  Okay, 200+ so far. How many would die if the US ended up having a second civil war? What if nuclear deterrence failed to deter conventional warfare and foreign boots landed on US soil? I understand these are drastic and extreme possibilities that we'd rather not think about and would hope could never occur. However, the world can be an extremely dangerous place as people in Syria, Iraq, Venezuela, HK, etc. understand better than most. It's not a fantasy world, and we can never forget that if it's possible over there then it's possible over here, and that's a risk that vastly dwarfs the current outrage.
- jdkdnfndnfjd 7y ago
  So the vast majority of gun death happens because of illegal guns and yet the problem is that guns are legal. The wretched cesspools that we call public schools are creating a bullying environment that makes kids suicidal and in this way kills lots of kids (some of which translate their despair into murder-suicide) and yet it’s our 2A right that we should dismantle, not the public schools? Our kids are an international embarrassment and cannot even point to Tunisia on a map. And the most famous school shooting of all time, the one that started it all, columbine, sources it’s guns from an illegal gun dealer, not the home and yet it’s my right to defend my home that needs to be infringed?
  - slothtrop 7y ago
    > it’s our 2A right that we should dismantle, not the public schools? Didn't say that, nor do I believe that. Just correcting the above. > So the vast majority of gun death happens because of illegal guns Well the majority are suicide, with legal guns. As for homicide, yes. But people don't care about that, really. They care about mass shootings, or school shootings. > The wretched cesspools that we call public schools are creating a bullying environment that makes kids suicidal and in this way kills lots of kids We don't know to what extent it's about bullying in the school system (kids haven't gotten meaner), or exacerbation of issues as a function of modern living (e.g. more isolation), or neither. What's clear is that guns are easily accessible to angsty homicidal loners. I don't think schools in and of themselves are so different than those in every other developed country as to be responsible for shootings. > And the most famous school shooting of all time, the one that started it all, columbine, sources it’s guns from an illegal gun dealer, Yeah, they did, from unlicensed sellers. Not most.

wbronitsky 7y ago

One school shooting is far too many. I reject your argument vehemently. We are talking about murdered children.

Kaiyou 7y ago
One school kid being run over by a car is far too many. We should ban cars!
sojournerc 7y ago
What was I arguing? I merely pointed towards a well known psychological bias that's resulting in feel-good measures that do little to ensure _actual_ safety. There are many more risks to our children we should consider before this one, and there's only so much political capital to do it. Authoritarianism is one of those risks...

slothtrop 7y ago

> you're also grossly overestimating the occurrence The bodycount might not be "spectacular" but the rate of school shootings in the U.S. dwarfs other developed countries. Fatalities 200+ so far. At any rate, you don't know what they were 'estimating' exactly. > The vast majority of shootings are between criminal gangs - making the guns illegal will not magically make criminals into upstanding citizens. Criminals retrieve their weapons through underground networks. School shooters do not. They're just students. They've either grabbed what was lying around at home or bought them. Such that, accessibility to school shooters is hampered were it the case that legal distribution were more restricted. Add to the fact, circulation of guns in the underground is only possible and bloated because of the sheet number of legal guns.

goodluckchuck 7y ago
Okay, 200+ so far. How many would die if the US ended up having a second civil war? What if nuclear deterrence failed to deter conventional warfare and foreign boots landed on US soil? I understand these are drastic and extreme possibilities that we'd rather not think about and would hope could never occur. However, the world can be an extremely dangerous place as people in Syria, Iraq, Venezuela, HK, etc. understand better than most. It's not a fantasy world, and we can never forget that if it's possible over there then it's possible over here, and that's a risk that vastly dwarfs the current outrage.
jdkdnfndnfjd 7y ago
So the vast majority of gun death happens because of illegal guns and yet the problem is that guns are legal. The wretched cesspools that we call public schools are creating a bullying environment that makes kids suicidal and in this way kills lots of kids (some of which translate their despair into murder-suicide) and yet it’s our 2A right that we should dismantle, not the public schools? Our kids are an international embarrassment and cannot even point to Tunisia on a map. And the most famous school shooting of all time, the one that started it all, columbine, sources it’s guns from an illegal gun dealer, not the home and yet it’s my right to defend my home that needs to be infringed?
- slothtrop 7y ago
  > it’s our 2A right that we should dismantle, not the public schools? Didn't say that, nor do I believe that. Just correcting the above. > So the vast majority of gun death happens because of illegal guns Well the majority are suicide, with legal guns. As for homicide, yes. But people don't care about that, really. They care about mass shootings, or school shootings. > The wretched cesspools that we call public schools are creating a bullying environment that makes kids suicidal and in this way kills lots of kids We don't know to what extent it's about bullying in the school system (kids haven't gotten meaner), or exacerbation of issues as a function of modern living (e.g. more isolation), or neither. What's clear is that guns are easily accessible to angsty homicidal loners. I don't think schools in and of themselves are so different than those in every other developed country as to be responsible for shootings. > And the most famous school shooting of all time, the one that started it all, columbine, sources it’s guns from an illegal gun dealer, Yeah, they did, from unlicensed sellers. Not most.