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Why would someone assume that the programmer was to blame? The programmer just does what the managers tell him to do. Why should safety or security be about bla

Why would someone assume that the programmer was to blame? The programmer just does what the managers tell him to do. Why should safety or security be about blaming the low man on the totem pole? It's totally ridiculous when you read accounts like that of the NASA engineer. https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2012/02/06/146490064/remembering-roger-boisjoly-he-tried-to-stop-shuttle-challenger-launch https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2012/02/06/146490064...

99052882514569 7y ago
Where did someone assume that the programmer was to blame? How do you find out if the High On Totem Pole Man is to blame if you can't depose the Low On Totem Pole Man? You can't. You are forced to take the High On Totem Pole Man's word for it.
- im_with_stupid 7y ago
  The man over others is the responsible person. If you don't have this, you have no reasonable reason to be incorporated.
  - criddell 7y ago
    If your doctor harms you, you don't sue his boss for malpractice, do you?
    - ivolimmen 7y ago
      But a doctor is not tolled how to perform an operation. Whereas a developer in most all cases is. Just like in the emissions scandal of VW.
      - criddell 7y ago
        If a doctor is told to do something they know will harm a patient, they have to refuse or they are guilty of malpractice. Engineers at VW were found guilty: https://www.wsj.com/articles/volkswagen-engineer-sentenced-for-role-in-emissions-fraud-1503676373 https://www.wsj.com/articles/volkswagen-engineer-sentenced-f...
- nimblegorilla 7y ago
  > Where did someone assume that the programmer was to blame? I agree higher-ups bear the brunt of responsibility, but the title of this post currently says "the programmer behind the THERAC-25 Fiasco was never found"
criddell 7y ago
One of the reasons I think the title Software Engineer should be protected as a professional designation (P.Eng) is to remove arguments like yours. If that lone developer were a real Software Engineer then he would be absolutely be guilty of malpractice. An Engineer can't escape culpability because they were just following orders.
- im_with_stupid 7y ago
  How is it malpractice for a single programmer/software engineer when a critical part of the code should have code reviews, software design in advance of creation of code which is approved by management? Not to mention thousands of tests with radiation detectors. How can you possibly miss so many safety gates without management being in the wrong?
  - criddell 7y ago
    Of course management could be negligent and I never said otherwise. That still doesn't relieve any Professional Engineer of their obligations and responsibilities. In this case the author of the software was almost certainly not a P.Eng. (and thus shouldn't be called a software engineer IMHO) and couldn't be found guilty of malpractice.
  - mcguire 7y ago
    One of the reasons I dislike the term "software engineer" is because programmers hate to take responsibility. A professional would be willing to sign their name for the work or they wouldn't do it at all.
- dwild 7y ago
  There's no law surrounding software engineer though, so we have no power over their own work. In civil engineering, if someone else takes your plan and still use them even though you still haven't signed them, they are the one responsible. You can do that in software engineering.
  - criddell 7y ago

99052882514569 7y ago

Where did someone assume that the programmer was to blame? How do you find out if the High On Totem Pole Man is to blame if you can't depose the Low On Totem Pole Man? You can't. You are forced to take the High On Totem Pole Man's word for it.

im_with_stupid 7y ago
The man over others is the responsible person. If you don't have this, you have no reasonable reason to be incorporated.
- criddell 7y ago
  If your doctor harms you, you don't sue his boss for malpractice, do you?
  - ivolimmen 7y ago
    But a doctor is not tolled how to perform an operation. Whereas a developer in most all cases is. Just like in the emissions scandal of VW.
    - criddell 7y ago
      If a doctor is told to do something they know will harm a patient, they have to refuse or they are guilty of malpractice. Engineers at VW were found guilty: https://www.wsj.com/articles/volkswagen-engineer-sentenced-for-role-in-emissions-fraud-1503676373 https://www.wsj.com/articles/volkswagen-engineer-sentenced-f...
nimblegorilla 7y ago
> Where did someone assume that the programmer was to blame? I agree higher-ups bear the brunt of responsibility, but the title of this post currently says "the programmer behind the THERAC-25 Fiasco was never found"

criddell 7y ago

One of the reasons I think the title Software Engineer should be protected as a professional designation (P.Eng) is to remove arguments like yours. If that lone developer were a real Software Engineer then he would be absolutely be guilty of malpractice. An Engineer can't escape culpability because they were just following orders.

im_with_stupid 7y ago
How is it malpractice for a single programmer/software engineer when a critical part of the code should have code reviews, software design in advance of creation of code which is approved by management? Not to mention thousands of tests with radiation detectors. How can you possibly miss so many safety gates without management being in the wrong?
- criddell 7y ago
  Of course management could be negligent and I never said otherwise. That still doesn't relieve any Professional Engineer of their obligations and responsibilities. In this case the author of the software was almost certainly not a P.Eng. (and thus shouldn't be called a software engineer IMHO) and couldn't be found guilty of malpractice.
- mcguire 7y ago
  One of the reasons I dislike the term "software engineer" is because programmers hate to take responsibility. A professional would be willing to sign their name for the work or they wouldn't do it at all.
dwild 7y ago
There's no law surrounding software engineer though, so we have no power over their own work. In civil engineering, if someone else takes your plan and still use them even though you still haven't signed them, they are the one responsible. You can do that in software engineering.
- criddell 7y ago