3 ms·

Hacking is just interesting only if you are not following any "tutorial". Today you can run an embedded linux under 10 minutes with less that 20 bucks with a RP

by scoutt 7y ago

Hacking is just interesting only if you are not following any "tutorial". Today you can run an embedded linux under 10 minutes with less that 20 bucks with a RPI by reading some tutorial or watching a youtube video. What's the fun about that? I remember too hacking my commodore and the only help I had was just a book in a strange language (english in my case) and my dad (he was into 8086 at that time) when I was a kid. Today everyone pretends there should be step-by-step guides on how to do everything. The most similar thing to that hacking feeling I get in the present is implementing some unknown HW component (i.e. a sensor, I2C device, microcontroller) that there is no source code or help for it (of course, when doing it for fun and not work). When the thing starts to work, there is a very little spark similar to those felt when I was a kid.

80386 7y ago
Linux is... a little alienating, isn't it? How many people can hold the whole thing in their head? Not many - and I don't think it's seamless enough to work as another layer of magic, either. People accept OS X because it's another layer of magic. TempleOS was written by one guy, so I assume it can fit inside one head. Linux has been written by a lot of people over several decades. Maybe I'm completely wrong about this, I don't know. But I'm getting old and lazy, so these days I'm on Windows. I'm a little surprised there aren't more weird OSes going around these days, now that everything runs in the browser except text editors and fancy video games.
- bregma 7y ago
  > I'm a little surprised there aren't more weird OSes going around these days, now that everything runs in the browser except text editors and fancy video games. Don't know what you're talking about, but I've used plenty of text editors and played fancy video games in a browser. The day will come when your can run a hardware emulator in your browser and use to it run your hobby OS or even a C64 image for you to hack on.
- peteforde 7y ago
  TempleOS was written by one guy. He just happened to be a lunatic who did little else. It was a very sad story, TBH. Thankfully, there's very little about TempleOS that has anything to do with a massive influx of kids hacking.
TeMPOraL 7y ago
I'm guessing you didn't rediscover programming from first principles. There are always tutorials (or books) you learn from. Hacking starts when you start to deviate from a tutorial, when you have a goal of your own and have to figure out how to connect all the various pieces of knowledge and references you have available, and how to fill in the missing pieces.
theamk 7y ago
Well, yeah, the video tutorials / step by step guides are for people who do not care about hacking, or deep understanding of how the system works. It is like McDonalds of software world - ypu are no loger hungry, but the food is pretty bad. You can always grab a book (and a manpage, and a sample config) and do it the old fashioned way. It will take longer, but will teach you more.
anthk 7y ago
Back in the day I had to setup a TV tuner for Linux by hand, by spicifying its module parameters such as the PLL, the tuner and so on. No internet at home, not even by a GSM phone. Also I had to setup XawTV and AleVT which was no easy task with a Pal tuner and some quirks. I never learnt so much about IT except when I installed OpenBSD a few years later.
peteforde 7y ago
Yeah, I just don't agree. I don't think you (or we) get to decide what makes someone feel that hacking feeling. There's a term for not finding "you can run an embedded linux under 10 minutes with less that 20 bucks with a RPI by reading some tutorial or watching a youtube video" exciting: jaded. "What's the fun about that?"... seriously, dude? Listen to yourself. It's only not fun because you've done it so many times. It's fucking incredible. News flash: the fact that you were able to be alive at a time when C64s and XTs were happening, that you had someone who loved you in your immediate family that could help you if you got stuck was an enormous privilege. I challenge you to explain to me how someone today learning to hack a Pi from a Youtube video even though their parents are manual labourers and electricity isn't always available is somehow less hacker than you ever were. Get out of your own head.
- scoutt 7y ago
  > get to decide what makes someone feel that hacking feeling I agree, but I wasn't deciding for anyone; just saying what happens in my case. > It's fucking incredible. I totally agree, but it's not hacking. It assembling LEGO with instructions. I am not saying I'm a better hacker or that it has to be done the way I say. What I'm just saying is that if you follow the instruction books, tutorials or videos, you are not doing any hacking. You are just assembling IKEA furniture. I am not saying that is not useful, that won't teach you anything or that you should be doing something else. I'm just saying that is not hacking.
  - peteforde 7y ago
    I guess you tell your current or future children that their feeling of excitement at the realization that they can build anything they can imagine with time and effort is less legitimate than the pure rush you experienced on a C64 just because you didn't have any access to reference material? I just think you're being a bit of a temporal chauvinist. I'm not angry with you and it's okay if we disagree. :) https://vimeo.com/312006066 https://vimeo.com/312006066

by scoutt 7y ago

80386 7y ago

Linux is... a little alienating, isn't it? How many people can hold the whole thing in their head? Not many - and I don't think it's seamless enough to work as another layer of magic, either. People accept OS X because it's another layer of magic. TempleOS was written by one guy, so I assume it can fit inside one head. Linux has been written by a lot of people over several decades. Maybe I'm completely wrong about this, I don't know. But I'm getting old and lazy, so these days I'm on Windows. I'm a little surprised there aren't more weird OSes going around these days, now that everything runs in the browser except text editors and fancy video games.

bregma 7y ago
> I'm a little surprised there aren't more weird OSes going around these days, now that everything runs in the browser except text editors and fancy video games. Don't know what you're talking about, but I've used plenty of text editors and played fancy video games in a browser. The day will come when your can run a hardware emulator in your browser and use to it run your hobby OS or even a C64 image for you to hack on.
peteforde 7y ago
TempleOS was written by one guy. He just happened to be a lunatic who did little else. It was a very sad story, TBH. Thankfully, there's very little about TempleOS that has anything to do with a massive influx of kids hacking.

TeMPOraL 7y ago

I'm guessing you didn't rediscover programming from first principles. There are always tutorials (or books) you learn from. Hacking starts when you start to deviate from a tutorial, when you have a goal of your own and have to figure out how to connect all the various pieces of knowledge and references you have available, and how to fill in the missing pieces.

theamk 7y ago

Well, yeah, the video tutorials / step by step guides are for people who do not care about hacking, or deep understanding of how the system works. It is like McDonalds of software world - ypu are no loger hungry, but the food is pretty bad. You can always grab a book (and a manpage, and a sample config) and do it the old fashioned way. It will take longer, but will teach you more.

anthk 7y ago

Back in the day I had to setup a TV tuner for Linux by hand, by spicifying its module parameters such as the PLL, the tuner and so on. No internet at home, not even by a GSM phone. Also I had to setup XawTV and AleVT which was no easy task with a Pal tuner and some quirks. I never learnt so much about IT except when I installed OpenBSD a few years later.

peteforde 7y ago

Yeah, I just don't agree. I don't think you (or we) get to decide what makes someone feel that hacking feeling. There's a term for not finding "you can run an embedded linux under 10 minutes with less that 20 bucks with a RPI by reading some tutorial or watching a youtube video" exciting: jaded. "What's the fun about that?"... seriously, dude? Listen to yourself. It's only not fun because you've done it so many times. It's fucking incredible. News flash: the fact that you were able to be alive at a time when C64s and XTs were happening, that you had someone who loved you in your immediate family that could help you if you got stuck was an enormous privilege. I challenge you to explain to me how someone today learning to hack a Pi from a Youtube video even though their parents are manual labourers and electricity isn't always available is somehow less hacker than you ever were. Get out of your own head.

scoutt 7y ago
> get to decide what makes someone feel that hacking feeling I agree, but I wasn't deciding for anyone; just saying what happens in my case. > It's fucking incredible. I totally agree, but it's not hacking. It assembling LEGO with instructions. I am not saying I'm a better hacker or that it has to be done the way I say. What I'm just saying is that if you follow the instruction books, tutorials or videos, you are not doing any hacking. You are just assembling IKEA furniture. I am not saying that is not useful, that won't teach you anything or that you should be doing something else. I'm just saying that is not hacking.
- peteforde 7y ago
  I guess you tell your current or future children that their feeling of excitement at the realization that they can build anything they can imagine with time and effort is less legitimate than the pure rush you experienced on a C64 just because you didn't have any access to reference material? I just think you're being a bit of a temporal chauvinist. I'm not angry with you and it's okay if we disagree. :) https://vimeo.com/312006066 https://vimeo.com/312006066