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Stuxnet was created by the NSA in a joint operation with 8200. And yes there are 50,000 ex-8200 alumni, so calling all of them spies is kind of absurd

kuschku 7y ago
Calling them spy may be wrong, but I certainly won't ever work with, or use technology made by people who worked for an intelligence agency. That's something over which I'd also terminate friendships. And many people have a similar mindset, so it's understandable to report this information, and make consumer choices based on it. That said, Israel should probably consider solutions like other countries with mandatory military service have, e.g. in Germany (until it stopped being mandatory) it was possible to avoid military service by spending the exact same time instead working in social services, e.g. hospitals, daycares, retirement homes, etc.
- NaggingGranpa 7y ago
  Spoiled brat living under Uncle Sam's protection feels entitled to give advice to non-effete countries whose armies have actually seen combat since the 1940s.
- fortzi 7y ago
  To me the word spy and the term ex-intel paint a very different picture of the person being described. When I realized this guy was just in the 8200 unit I literally giggled at the notion that all those 18 year old nerds are all spooky spies.
  - kuschku 7y ago
    Do you believe people would continue using a VPN if they knew several of its employees were ex-NSA? No, not at all. The same applies here, it doesn't matter if you call the people spy or not, VPNs should not have any association with intelligence services.
    - pron 7y ago
      Thing is, Akamai and Cisco employ a lot of those people. Quite many of them in security research. People who were in the NSA or Israeli intelligence are the people companies seek when they want security. Israel's military intelligence is one of the places where VPNs were first used, and the idea later became commercial VPN: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Check_Point#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Check_Point#History
- pron 7y ago
  Israel does allow it in some cases, but the security conditions in Israel and Germany are very different, as is the size of their population. But I have some bad news for you: you are most likely using technology made by people who've worked for intelligence agencies. For example, if you're using Intel chips, many dozens of their designers served in Israel's military intelligence. Same goes for Google, Apple and Microsoft products. It's just that a very high percentage of engineers in Israel served in military intelligence, and a lot of technology companies do R&D in Israel. But if you use Wikipedia, it's OK: its PHP engine was made by someone who served in the Israeli airforce, not military intelligence. Although, your packets are probably routed through Cisco routers, so maybe not so OK. Oh, Akamai servers, too. Also, there could be an issue with your Qualcomm Wifi chip.
  - kuschku 7y ago
    In the end, it still makes sense to realize this, and to be cautious. The NSA, Israeli Intelligence, BKA, FSB, etc are all not much better than the StaSi, and one should treat them, and their (ex-)employees with as much trust and respect. Of course using SELinux or TOR, or Intel products is something that’s hard to avoid, but one shouldn’t trust blindly.
    - pron 7y ago
      > The NSA, Israeli Intelligence, BKA, FSB, etc are all not much better than the StaSi I guess it depends on your definition of "much better", but for roughly the same definition you'd need to use to make that statement, you could also make it about Google and Facebook. And note that we're not talking about Israeli intelligence; we're talking about people who, when they were in their late teens and early twenties served, like a big portion of tech workers in Israel, did their mandatory service in a military intelligence unit. I know it's hard for people not familiar with it to understand, but most of these people don't have contacts in intelligence, as the personnel circulation in those units is very high -- almost everyone is just serving a few years for their mandatory service.
      - kuschku 7y ago

kuschku 7y ago

Calling them spy may be wrong, but I certainly won't ever work with, or use technology made by people who worked for an intelligence agency. That's something over which I'd also terminate friendships. And many people have a similar mindset, so it's understandable to report this information, and make consumer choices based on it. That said, Israel should probably consider solutions like other countries with mandatory military service have, e.g. in Germany (until it stopped being mandatory) it was possible to avoid military service by spending the exact same time instead working in social services, e.g. hospitals, daycares, retirement homes, etc.

NaggingGranpa 7y ago
Spoiled brat living under Uncle Sam's protection feels entitled to give advice to non-effete countries whose armies have actually seen combat since the 1940s.
fortzi 7y ago
To me the word spy and the term ex-intel paint a very different picture of the person being described. When I realized this guy was just in the 8200 unit I literally giggled at the notion that all those 18 year old nerds are all spooky spies.
- kuschku 7y ago
  Do you believe people would continue using a VPN if they knew several of its employees were ex-NSA? No, not at all. The same applies here, it doesn't matter if you call the people spy or not, VPNs should not have any association with intelligence services.
  - pron 7y ago
    Thing is, Akamai and Cisco employ a lot of those people. Quite many of them in security research. People who were in the NSA or Israeli intelligence are the people companies seek when they want security. Israel's military intelligence is one of the places where VPNs were first used, and the idea later became commercial VPN: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Check_Point#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Check_Point#History
pron 7y ago
Israel does allow it in some cases, but the security conditions in Israel and Germany are very different, as is the size of their population. But I have some bad news for you: you are most likely using technology made by people who've worked for intelligence agencies. For example, if you're using Intel chips, many dozens of their designers served in Israel's military intelligence. Same goes for Google, Apple and Microsoft products. It's just that a very high percentage of engineers in Israel served in military intelligence, and a lot of technology companies do R&D in Israel. But if you use Wikipedia, it's OK: its PHP engine was made by someone who served in the Israeli airforce, not military intelligence. Although, your packets are probably routed through Cisco routers, so maybe not so OK. Oh, Akamai servers, too. Also, there could be an issue with your Qualcomm Wifi chip.
- kuschku 7y ago
  In the end, it still makes sense to realize this, and to be cautious. The NSA, Israeli Intelligence, BKA, FSB, etc are all not much better than the StaSi, and one should treat them, and their (ex-)employees with as much trust and respect. Of course using SELinux or TOR, or Intel products is something that’s hard to avoid, but one shouldn’t trust blindly.
  - pron 7y ago
    > The NSA, Israeli Intelligence, BKA, FSB, etc are all not much better than the StaSi I guess it depends on your definition of "much better", but for roughly the same definition you'd need to use to make that statement, you could also make it about Google and Facebook. And note that we're not talking about Israeli intelligence; we're talking about people who, when they were in their late teens and early twenties served, like a big portion of tech workers in Israel, did their mandatory service in a military intelligence unit. I know it's hard for people not familiar with it to understand, but most of these people don't have contacts in intelligence, as the personnel circulation in those units is very high -- almost everyone is just serving a few years for their mandatory service.
    - kuschku 7y ago