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Thank you for your recommendations. We are working on and hope to go beyond the world of trust. We are now, the most transparent VPN as there are requirements

Thank you for your recommendations. We are working on and hope to go beyond the world of trust. We are now, the most transparent VPN as there are requirements to be transparent when you are a public company. We don't want people to be stuck with having to blindly believe in and trust us like other VPNs. Don't trust. Verify.

mirimir 7y ago
Actually, I do my best to hedge relying on trust. But Kape is just way too beyond the pale. Perhaps it's unfair, but the association with Israeli intelligence, and so indirectly with NGO Group and the NSA, is just too much.
- rasengan 7y ago
  In the security and cryptography community I think you'd be hard pressed to find people without similar backgrounds. I think being exposed to how insecure the world is and to what levels drives people to secure the world and empowers people to provide privacy and security to people. Some people whistleblow, while others develop software, and many lecture and teach people.
  - user982 7y ago
    > Some people whistleblow, while others develop software, and many lecture and teach people. And most have no problems with what they saw or did, and many used the contacts and knowledge gained from that background to further their civilian careers in the field and continue to maintain those connections and shared goals therewith.
    - LMYahooTFY 7y ago
      Excuse if I'm wrong, but is the implication that this should not occur at all? I'm not sure how that's even possible.
      - mirimir 7y ago
        Sure, it happens all the time. But the implications depend on context. It's not a huge issue that Palantir is loaded with former CIA and NSA people. Except about financial issues. But former intelligence folk running a VPN service? That makes one wonder what their goals actually are. That is, "maintain those connections and shared goals therewith". Many don't trust the Tor Project, for just that reason.
        LMYahooTFY 7y ago
        Do you have a source for any of that? Who at the Tor Project is a former intelligence employee?
        SahAssar 7y ago
        I'm not sure if you mean current developers, but TOR was started at the United States Naval Research Laboratory, which is definitely connected to the military intelligence operations.
        mirimir 7y ago
        Core Tor[0] ... Paul Syverson ... Who else, I don't know. But hey, I gotta say that Paul seems honorable. And a bloody genius, with a great sense of humor. I'm not a harsh critic. Just prudently suspicious. 0) https://www.torproject.org/about/people/ https://www.torproject.org/about/people/
  - newman314 7y ago
    What I'd like to know is why for the L2TP setup with PIA, the PSK is the same for all customers.
- flyinglizard 7y ago
  This company has no association with the Israeli intelligence whatsoever. Many, many of the Israelis involved in the technology world have served in the IDF Intelligence Corps (being that Israel has mandatory conscription and the intel corps select the best and brightest).
  - mirimir 7y ago
    And you know that how?
    - flyinglizard 7y ago
      My assertion is that companies are not automatically related to the Israeli intelligence even if their founders came from its ranks. It takes decisive contrarian proof to convince me otherwise. I did not see such proof in your post. Virtually any technology company either founded or operating in Israel has former Israeli intelligence people in its ranks. It's true for Microsoft, Google, Apple, Facebook and others.
  - EpicEng 7y ago
    >This company has no association with the Israeli intelligence whatsoever. And then... >My assertion is that companies are not automatically related to the Israeli intelligence even if their founders came from its ranks. It takes decisive contrarian proof to convince me otherwise. Why were you so convinced that there is no association? Maybe there is, maybe there isn't, but what we _do_ know is that the CEO is an ex member.
    - mirimir 7y ago
      Right, and there are lots of VPNs. So why use one with anything iffy about it? However, I gotta say that it's complicated for PIA. There's past evidence of being unable to produce logs for criminal investigators. And now there's the purchase by a firm with an iffy reputation. However, there's the possibility that said firm was exploited by malware pushers, and not intentionally pushing malware. But still, that's evidence of incompetence, which is also not a good thing for a VPN provider. And then the CEO's association with Israeli intelligence. So anyway, it is complicated. But it seems most prudent to wait and see.
rndgermandude 7y ago
WTF are you talking about? You're a "public company" so you are transparent, enough so that people can verify what you do? WAT That's like saying I can trust Philip Morris International and Altria that they would never downplay the carcinogenic properties of tobacco products because they are public companies.
- TJSomething 7y ago
  I mean, there's actually an active lawsuit against Altria for securities fraud Altria lying about JUUL to their investors. Similar lawsuits are common. Being a public company gives people with lots of money and lawyers (i.e. investors) motivation to make sure that the company's core value proposition isn't a big fat lie. I don't think that alone is sufficient evidence to immediately completely trust Kape, but it's worth some points in my book. And if the lawyers don't pull out any dirty laundry after a while, I'm going to assume there isn't any.
godelski 7y ago
In the past I have highly recommended your VPN, but I can no longer. In your TOS you have the line. > Client understands that the present Terms of Service are subject to changes made by PrivateInternetAccess at any time at its sole discretion, and you agree to be bound by any and all modifications, changes and/or revisions. You understand that it is your obligation to periodically review this webpage in order to account for any changes made, as they will be binding upon assent. Such a line does not build trust, especially given Kape's history. Do you honestly expect us to constantly review the TOS? We're also not lawyers. There's no line that even suggests PIA will even attempt to inform subscribers (at least those you have emails for or through a blog post) of TOS or privacy changes. You say > We don't want people to be stuck with having to blindly believe in and trust us like other VPNs. > Don't trust. Verify. нет доверия и нет проверки. How do we trust? How do we verify?
- jammygit 7y ago
  I have been frustrated by those lines for years now, I don’t understand how they could even be legal but they are ubiquitous in online contracts

mirimir 7y ago

Actually, I do my best to hedge relying on trust. But Kape is just way too beyond the pale. Perhaps it's unfair, but the association with Israeli intelligence, and so indirectly with NGO Group and the NSA, is just too much.

rasengan 7y ago
In the security and cryptography community I think you'd be hard pressed to find people without similar backgrounds. I think being exposed to how insecure the world is and to what levels drives people to secure the world and empowers people to provide privacy and security to people. Some people whistleblow, while others develop software, and many lecture and teach people.
- user982 7y ago
  > Some people whistleblow, while others develop software, and many lecture and teach people. And most have no problems with what they saw or did, and many used the contacts and knowledge gained from that background to further their civilian careers in the field and continue to maintain those connections and shared goals therewith.
  - LMYahooTFY 7y ago
    Excuse if I'm wrong, but is the implication that this should not occur at all? I'm not sure how that's even possible.
    - mirimir 7y ago
      Sure, it happens all the time. But the implications depend on context. It's not a huge issue that Palantir is loaded with former CIA and NSA people. Except about financial issues. But former intelligence folk running a VPN service? That makes one wonder what their goals actually are. That is, "maintain those connections and shared goals therewith". Many don't trust the Tor Project, for just that reason.
      - LMYahooTFY 7y ago
        Do you have a source for any of that? Who at the Tor Project is a former intelligence employee?
        SahAssar 7y ago
        I'm not sure if you mean current developers, but TOR was started at the United States Naval Research Laboratory, which is definitely connected to the military intelligence operations.
        mirimir 7y ago
        Core Tor[0] ... Paul Syverson ... Who else, I don't know. But hey, I gotta say that Paul seems honorable. And a bloody genius, with a great sense of humor. I'm not a harsh critic. Just prudently suspicious. 0) https://www.torproject.org/about/people/ https://www.torproject.org/about/people/
- newman314 7y ago
  What I'd like to know is why for the L2TP setup with PIA, the PSK is the same for all customers.
flyinglizard 7y ago
This company has no association with the Israeli intelligence whatsoever. Many, many of the Israelis involved in the technology world have served in the IDF Intelligence Corps (being that Israel has mandatory conscription and the intel corps select the best and brightest).
- mirimir 7y ago
  And you know that how?
  - flyinglizard 7y ago
    My assertion is that companies are not automatically related to the Israeli intelligence even if their founders came from its ranks. It takes decisive contrarian proof to convince me otherwise. I did not see such proof in your post. Virtually any technology company either founded or operating in Israel has former Israeli intelligence people in its ranks. It's true for Microsoft, Google, Apple, Facebook and others.
- EpicEng 7y ago
  >This company has no association with the Israeli intelligence whatsoever. And then... >My assertion is that companies are not automatically related to the Israeli intelligence even if their founders came from its ranks. It takes decisive contrarian proof to convince me otherwise. Why were you so convinced that there is no association? Maybe there is, maybe there isn't, but what we _do_ know is that the CEO is an ex member.
  - mirimir 7y ago
    Right, and there are lots of VPNs. So why use one with anything iffy about it? However, I gotta say that it's complicated for PIA. There's past evidence of being unable to produce logs for criminal investigators. And now there's the purchase by a firm with an iffy reputation. However, there's the possibility that said firm was exploited by malware pushers, and not intentionally pushing malware. But still, that's evidence of incompetence, which is also not a good thing for a VPN provider. And then the CEO's association with Israeli intelligence. So anyway, it is complicated. But it seems most prudent to wait and see.

rndgermandude 7y ago

WTF are you talking about? You're a "public company" so you are transparent, enough so that people can verify what you do? WAT That's like saying I can trust Philip Morris International and Altria that they would never downplay the carcinogenic properties of tobacco products because they are public companies.

TJSomething 7y ago
I mean, there's actually an active lawsuit against Altria for securities fraud Altria lying about JUUL to their investors. Similar lawsuits are common. Being a public company gives people with lots of money and lawyers (i.e. investors) motivation to make sure that the company's core value proposition isn't a big fat lie. I don't think that alone is sufficient evidence to immediately completely trust Kape, but it's worth some points in my book. And if the lawyers don't pull out any dirty laundry after a while, I'm going to assume there isn't any.

godelski 7y ago

In the past I have highly recommended your VPN, but I can no longer. In your TOS you have the line. > Client understands that the present Terms of Service are subject to changes made by PrivateInternetAccess at any time at its sole discretion, and you agree to be bound by any and all modifications, changes and/or revisions. You understand that it is your obligation to periodically review this webpage in order to account for any changes made, as they will be binding upon assent. Such a line does not build trust, especially given Kape's history. Do you honestly expect us to constantly review the TOS? We're also not lawyers. There's no line that even suggests PIA will even attempt to inform subscribers (at least those you have emails for or through a blog post) of TOS or privacy changes. You say > We don't want people to be stuck with having to blindly believe in and trust us like other VPNs. > Don't trust. Verify. нет доверия и нет проверки. How do we trust? How do we verify?

jammygit 7y ago
I have been frustrated by those lines for years now, I don’t understand how they could even be legal but they are ubiquitous in online contracts