8 ms·

Damn too late to buy AMD stocks? It is unbelievable to me, the level of inaction from Intel's managements just sit there all these years with all the advantage

Damn too late to buy AMD stocks? It is unbelievable to me, the level of inaction from Intel's managements just sit there all these years with all the advantage and cash they have had, and watch all of these washed away. Their response? More inaction. Time to change.

chx 7y ago
They are accelarating 7nm as much as they can, there's little else they can do. The 10nm process is a broken disaster.
- momokoko 7y ago
  What you are doing is actually a felony in the US. Please be careful.
  - SirYandi 7y ago
    What is he doing?
    - chx 7y ago
      Reposting what everyone knows? Intel announced this May they are planning to release their first 7nm product late 2021 and I believe they used the accelerate word. Based on what we know about their 10nm and 7nm processes, the chances of 7nm actually working is much higher than the 10nm. Tweakers.net leaked and semiaccurate reposted https://www.semiaccurate.com/assets/uploads/2019/04/2002679906.png https://www.semiaccurate.com/assets/uploads/2019/04/20026799... a leaked roadmap and there's the recent news of Rocket Lake -- a 14nm desktop chip slated for 2021. https://wccftech.com/intel-rocket-lake-desktop-14nm-cpu-8-core-gen-12-xe-gpu/ https://wccftech.com/intel-rocket-lake-desktop-14nm-cpu-8-co... If you choose to believe Semiaccurate, https://semiaccurate.com/2019/04/25/leaked-roadmap-shows-intels-10nm-woes/ https://semiaccurate.com/2019/04/25/leaked-roadmap-shows-int... > Intel moved three of the four fabs slated for 10nm to other processes, some are going to 7nm while others backported to 14nm. It's very clear Intel can't make 10nm work as they hoped it would and they will limp along with a limited number of halo chips for notebooks. They hope for server chips late 2020 https://hothardware.com/news/intel-10nm-ice-lake-sp-q3-2020-38-cores-76-threads https://hothardware.com/news/intel-10nm-ice-lake-sp-q3-2020-... but at this juncture I wouldn't be surprised if those would be first postponed then cancelled. If this guy thinks I am posting insider info or stock manipulating, well, you need to go after wccftech and semiaccurate.
      - choonway 7y ago
        If the 10nm is a broken process and Intel didn't announce it, aren't they open to shareholder lawsuits for failure to disclose material facts?
        chx 7y ago
        It's the USA, baby, you can sue for whatever you want! I am not a lawyer to know whether this has any merits. AFAIK even Meltdown only got a few class actions, not a shareholder one despite the fact they released vulnerable chips months after they knew but before the public knew.
        AHTERIX5000 7y ago
        Of course they had to announce the delays regarding 10 nm products and people can draw conclusions from that.
imajoo 7y ago
I'd say it's not so much inaction as inability to fix 10nm. By coupling architecture to process node for so long it really hosed them since they couldn't execute 10nm in a reasonable timeline.
flxy 7y ago
There was some action from Intel. They slashed the prices of their 10000 series by up to 50% to be able to compete in terms of price. But those CPUs are just refreshes of their 9000 series so it didn't do much in terms of improving performance. From what I've heard throughout the hardware reviewer scene it also gained them a lot of flack because they announced it a day before the new Threadrippers I think. In terms of new, much more powerful hardware Intel can't do much for now. Maybe 2020 or 2021. By which time AMD will have Zen 3 which promises some more big improvements.
- lhl 7y ago
  The issue with the press backlash was that originally the press embargoes for both the AMD and Intel HEDT parts were both set for the same day and time (Mon Nov 25 @ 9AM Eastern) but then a few days before embargo lift, Intel shifted their embargo time a few hours earlier (3AM Eastern), presumably in a bid to get press to publish their Intel 10980XE reviews without being able to compare to the new (3970X/3970X) Threadrippers (which, incidentally, by and large crush the Intel chip's performance). This only partly worked - due to how late they changed the times, I saw a bunch of publications just waited until the original embargo time anyway rather than redoing all their comparison slides, and of course, it got everyone to talk about how badly the Intel chips fare, but that was somewhat inevitable no matter what embargo shenanigans they did. More interesting I think is that in some of the workloads where Intel did fare well, this was via some pretty questionable means (suggesting to reviewers to use MKL-apps that specifically cripple AMD chips without mentioning that): https://www.extremetech.com/computing/302650-how-to-bypass-matlab-cripple-amd-ryzen-threadripper-cpus https://www.extremetech.com/computing/302650-how-to-bypass-m... - at least in the case of Matlab, this can be worked around via an environment setting. Interestingly, someone pointed out today that the FTC specifically called out the MKL and ordered them to stop doing this back in 2009-2010: https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/e4klj0/intel_is_still_sneakily_sabotaging_amd/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/e4klj0/intel_is_still_...
  - nightcracker 7y ago
    Linus tech tips straight up called Intel out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuaiqcjf0bs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuaiqcjf0bs The best part is that he didn't wait out the embargo, and published graphs that still included AMD's Threadrippers at the top, just blurred out and unmarked, making it painfully clear that Intel is just beat and a very sore loser: https://i.imgur.com/RleR7Ou.png https://i.imgur.com/RleR7Ou.png.
xenadu02 7y ago
Intel bet everything on 10nm. If it had paid off they wouldn't be behind. Unfortunately for them they did. Double unfortunately AMD has done a great job on their designs after learning some painful lessons from Bulldozer. Triple unfortunately AMD contracted TSMC for this arch and TSMC has been killing it on 7nm (roughly equivalent to Intel's 10nm node).

chx 7y ago

They are accelarating 7nm as much as they can, there's little else they can do. The 10nm process is a broken disaster.

momokoko 7y ago
What you are doing is actually a felony in the US. Please be careful.
- SirYandi 7y ago
  What is he doing?
  - chx 7y ago
    Reposting what everyone knows? Intel announced this May they are planning to release their first 7nm product late 2021 and I believe they used the accelerate word. Based on what we know about their 10nm and 7nm processes, the chances of 7nm actually working is much higher than the 10nm. Tweakers.net leaked and semiaccurate reposted https://www.semiaccurate.com/assets/uploads/2019/04/2002679906.png https://www.semiaccurate.com/assets/uploads/2019/04/20026799... a leaked roadmap and there's the recent news of Rocket Lake -- a 14nm desktop chip slated for 2021. https://wccftech.com/intel-rocket-lake-desktop-14nm-cpu-8-core-gen-12-xe-gpu/ https://wccftech.com/intel-rocket-lake-desktop-14nm-cpu-8-co... If you choose to believe Semiaccurate, https://semiaccurate.com/2019/04/25/leaked-roadmap-shows-intels-10nm-woes/ https://semiaccurate.com/2019/04/25/leaked-roadmap-shows-int... > Intel moved three of the four fabs slated for 10nm to other processes, some are going to 7nm while others backported to 14nm. It's very clear Intel can't make 10nm work as they hoped it would and they will limp along with a limited number of halo chips for notebooks. They hope for server chips late 2020 https://hothardware.com/news/intel-10nm-ice-lake-sp-q3-2020-38-cores-76-threads https://hothardware.com/news/intel-10nm-ice-lake-sp-q3-2020-... but at this juncture I wouldn't be surprised if those would be first postponed then cancelled. If this guy thinks I am posting insider info or stock manipulating, well, you need to go after wccftech and semiaccurate.
    - choonway 7y ago
      If the 10nm is a broken process and Intel didn't announce it, aren't they open to shareholder lawsuits for failure to disclose material facts?
      - chx 7y ago
        It's the USA, baby, you can sue for whatever you want! I am not a lawyer to know whether this has any merits. AFAIK even Meltdown only got a few class actions, not a shareholder one despite the fact they released vulnerable chips months after they knew but before the public knew.
      - AHTERIX5000 7y ago
        Of course they had to announce the delays regarding 10 nm products and people can draw conclusions from that.

imajoo 7y ago

I'd say it's not so much inaction as inability to fix 10nm. By coupling architecture to process node for so long it really hosed them since they couldn't execute 10nm in a reasonable timeline.

flxy 7y ago

There was some action from Intel. They slashed the prices of their 10000 series by up to 50% to be able to compete in terms of price. But those CPUs are just refreshes of their 9000 series so it didn't do much in terms of improving performance. From what I've heard throughout the hardware reviewer scene it also gained them a lot of flack because they announced it a day before the new Threadrippers I think. In terms of new, much more powerful hardware Intel can't do much for now. Maybe 2020 or 2021. By which time AMD will have Zen 3 which promises some more big improvements.

lhl 7y ago
The issue with the press backlash was that originally the press embargoes for both the AMD and Intel HEDT parts were both set for the same day and time (Mon Nov 25 @ 9AM Eastern) but then a few days before embargo lift, Intel shifted their embargo time a few hours earlier (3AM Eastern), presumably in a bid to get press to publish their Intel 10980XE reviews without being able to compare to the new (3970X/3970X) Threadrippers (which, incidentally, by and large crush the Intel chip's performance). This only partly worked - due to how late they changed the times, I saw a bunch of publications just waited until the original embargo time anyway rather than redoing all their comparison slides, and of course, it got everyone to talk about how badly the Intel chips fare, but that was somewhat inevitable no matter what embargo shenanigans they did. More interesting I think is that in some of the workloads where Intel did fare well, this was via some pretty questionable means (suggesting to reviewers to use MKL-apps that specifically cripple AMD chips without mentioning that): https://www.extremetech.com/computing/302650-how-to-bypass-matlab-cripple-amd-ryzen-threadripper-cpus https://www.extremetech.com/computing/302650-how-to-bypass-m... - at least in the case of Matlab, this can be worked around via an environment setting. Interestingly, someone pointed out today that the FTC specifically called out the MKL and ordered them to stop doing this back in 2009-2010: https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/e4klj0/intel_is_still_sneakily_sabotaging_amd/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/e4klj0/intel_is_still_...
- nightcracker 7y ago
  Linus tech tips straight up called Intel out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuaiqcjf0bs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuaiqcjf0bs The best part is that he didn't wait out the embargo, and published graphs that still included AMD's Threadrippers at the top, just blurred out and unmarked, making it painfully clear that Intel is just beat and a very sore loser: https://i.imgur.com/RleR7Ou.png https://i.imgur.com/RleR7Ou.png.

xenadu02 7y ago

Intel bet everything on 10nm. If it had paid off they wouldn't be behind. Unfortunately for them they did. Double unfortunately AMD has done a great job on their designs after learning some painful lessons from Bulldozer. Triple unfortunately AMD contracted TSMC for this arch and TSMC has been killing it on 7nm (roughly equivalent to Intel's 10nm node).