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>The TLDR: If you want actual good writing, you should be trying to figure out how to reward writers who write well. If you don't want to in any way, shape or f

>The TLDR: If you want actual good writing, you should be trying to figure out how to reward writers who write well. If you don't want to in any way, shape or form whatsoever (because most people on HN use ad blockers) let them get paid somehow, don't be all shocked when the writing goes to shit. I don't think anyone disagrees with this overarching point whatsoever. My disagreement lies in the assertion that journalists are underpaid. Their pay is a reflection of the revenue they generate for their publishers, which itself is a reflection of the engagement their content provides for that publisher to monetize through ads, subscriptions or one-off purchases. The demand for quality journalism is now low, hence it generates little money and therefore those involved in it are rewarded little. I agree with you in that if people want quality journalism, they should pay for their content in some form. However, even if you got the entirety of the hackernews readership to pay for a subscription, you would not put a dent in the overall direction journalism is traveling in. Another option would be to have the government subsidize outlets, as is done in the UK with the BBC, Canada with CBC, Ireland with RTE, etc etc. This effort will be at the mercy of the taxpayer and can only provide so many jobs, and due to the nature of being state controlled will be subjected to, or dismissed entirely because of, claims of bias or propaganda. When the internet is pumping out limitless, "free" content, much of which uses manipulative behaviour to maximize engagement, mainstream outlets polarize politically and in doing so ostracize half their potential readership base, people's attention spans are continually shortening and intellectual curiosity shallowing, it's no surprise that quality will suffer hugely. It may be fair to say that it could well be beyond rescue at this point. But just an FYI: I maintain subscriptions to several newspapers and magazines. I'm personally more than happy to pay for the content I enjoy.

DoreenMichele 7y ago
Their pay is a reflection of the revenue they generate for their publishers, which itself is a reflection of the engagement their content provides for that publisher to monetize through ads, subscriptions or one-off purchases. Lots of people use ad blockers. The HN crowd is particularly bad about this. People on HN actively look for ways to get around pay walls. Just to be clear since everyone seems to routinely assume that I'm making a moral argument, I don't use paywalls for my content and I don't have a big problem with people looking for ways around them. I'm just pointing out that they aren't exactly working well for people trying to monetize a thing that involves publishing writing. People also have a very big problem with writing used as a means to get you to make purchases of some sort, aka content marketing. People are understandably suspicious of writing whose goal is to get you to buy a thing so the writer and publisher can pay their own bills. I'm glad you have subscriptions. Good for you. But as someone who has put time into developing good writing, gets lots of feedback that I write well and my writing is "valued" but who continues to fail to find some means to adequately monetize my writing, I find all these arguments ridiculous. I would love to go Get A Real Job like everyone keeps telling me to do. Or even make an app, though I can't manage to get actual coding related questions answered here.* I've been here over a decade. HN gets over 5 million visitors a month. Between my old handle and this one, I have nearly 50k karma, which presumably is a proxy for "member of the community in good standing whose participation is valued." And I still can't get what I need, which makes me slightly suspicious that it basically can't be done at all given the state of the world. So, to my mind, saying (essentially) journalists "just need to write better" amounts to victim blaming. * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21677535 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21677535
- jakeogh 7y ago
  About coding questions, there is kinda a secret. Especially to people new to coding. IRC. I cant count (ok.. I could and it would be a big number) how many times the fantastic people on freenode#python have helped me out. Ask a well formed question, pastebin your example and what you tried, and I promise someone will help you out. It's the closest thing we have to a magic bottle. O ya, and use Linux. You wont regret it. Dont spend your valuable time developing for a closed system, if you cant open the hood, dont drive the car:) As for your drawing app question: 1. That's a big project to start from scratch. I write quite a bit of py, and it would take me years (because I would build it on independent primatives, writing and perfecting each). 2. If you really want to take a shot at it, find a py code base that is "closest" to what you actually want to do, and modify it. Often, I gotta start modifying something to even realize _what_ I want it to do. 3. I dont recommend JS. Sure you can make real apps that run independent of the browser, but it's going to be a harder road I promise. Stick to what the scientific community uses (drop into C if necessary [it's not]) because we often just "need to get it done" and py does that beautifully. -----------EDIT: I hit my comment limit for the night, so here is a reply to your reply:) There is no secret handshake:) I dont know where you were, but in pro-irc enviroments, people are relatively professional. #python is for sure. Almost nobody shows up and mentions gender btw. There are communication differences that are more common between guys, so that's easier for me for example, but you really _must_ have thick skin. Stuff that sounds dismissive is often just fast or frank advice, OR your question is too vague. Lurk a bit and observe. If you dont get a response, wait and improve your question and ask again. sometimes it takes a day for me to get an answer if it's a difficult topic, or I havent figured out how to ask it in a way that makes sense to other people. Dont assume anyone knows you are a woman, and while I appreciate it when someone makes it clear, especially if they want me to take it into account as there are communication norms that are just different (for some people!) you may find it easier to just not mention it. Or just clue it with your nic. IDK. Dont get stuck on that:) If you are getting a negative vibe, dont reply in-kind. As for freenode, here is the cliffnotes (look for a irc intro/howto and read it over). 1. find a open source irc client (I use weechat) 2. /connect irc.freenode.net 2. follow the on screen instructions to register your nic-name 4. /join #python 5. ask specific question. put some work into it. if you just want advice, say that. yep py is short for python (my github is in my profile, I think everything there is py) Often big graphics apps (like gimp) are written in C++. I dont recommend a beginner go down that route. A nice list: https://github.com/vinta/awesome-python https://github.com/vinta/awesome-python If it's not FOSS, then you cant modify it and/or you cant share your modifications. No problem:) This stuff is tough, it took me as least as long to learn it as it takes to become a good writer (I started on a Apple II in the 80's). As you get better, you learn _how_ to learn it faster. I sometimes spend a day on a single simple (in retrospect after you solve it!) problem. Learn to put it on hold and try another angle or a different problem. If I get stuck I open vi (the linux txt editor) and make a outline of what I want to be able to do. And _really_ use Linux. You will thank yourself later. Debian is a good intro. Personally I use (and cant live without) Gentoo, but the learning curve is steeper (but worth it!). ---- EDIT #2 I havent tried these, but they look like good starts: https://pythonprogramming.net/kivy-drawing-application-tutorial https://pythonprogramming.net/kivy-drawing-application-tutor... https://docs.python.org/3/library/turtle.html https://docs.python.org/3/library/turtle.html (I especially like this one because it's in the python standard library and looks like a fantastic way to get into the basics) Also checkout the game frameworks in that curated list above. It gets fun:) Stick to python3 only. I like this series: https://github.com/ubarredo/LearnPythonTheHardWay https://github.com/ubarredo/LearnPythonTheHardWay Also youtube has endless linux/python tutorials. That's a great way to see people using it in action.

DoreenMichele 7y ago

Their pay is a reflection of the revenue they generate for their publishers, which itself is a reflection of the engagement their content provides for that publisher to monetize through ads, subscriptions or one-off purchases. Lots of people use ad blockers. The HN crowd is particularly bad about this. People on HN actively look for ways to get around pay walls. Just to be clear since everyone seems to routinely assume that I'm making a moral argument, I don't use paywalls for my content and I don't have a big problem with people looking for ways around them. I'm just pointing out that they aren't exactly working well for people trying to monetize a thing that involves publishing writing. People also have a very big problem with writing used as a means to get you to make purchases of some sort, aka content marketing. People are understandably suspicious of writing whose goal is to get you to buy a thing so the writer and publisher can pay their own bills. I'm glad you have subscriptions. Good for you. But as someone who has put time into developing good writing, gets lots of feedback that I write well and my writing is "valued" but who continues to fail to find some means to adequately monetize my writing, I find all these arguments ridiculous. I would love to go Get A Real Job like everyone keeps telling me to do. Or even make an app, though I can't manage to get actual coding related questions answered here.* I've been here over a decade. HN gets over 5 million visitors a month. Between my old handle and this one, I have nearly 50k karma, which presumably is a proxy for "member of the community in good standing whose participation is valued." And I still can't get what I need, which makes me slightly suspicious that it basically can't be done at all given the state of the world. So, to my mind, saying (essentially) journalists "just need to write better" amounts to victim blaming. * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21677535 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21677535

jakeogh 7y ago
About coding questions, there is kinda a secret. Especially to people new to coding. IRC. I cant count (ok.. I could and it would be a big number) how many times the fantastic people on freenode#python have helped me out. Ask a well formed question, pastebin your example and what you tried, and I promise someone will help you out. It's the closest thing we have to a magic bottle. O ya, and use Linux. You wont regret it. Dont spend your valuable time developing for a closed system, if you cant open the hood, dont drive the car:) As for your drawing app question: 1. That's a big project to start from scratch. I write quite a bit of py, and it would take me years (because I would build it on independent primatives, writing and perfecting each). 2. If you really want to take a shot at it, find a py code base that is "closest" to what you actually want to do, and modify it. Often, I gotta start modifying something to even realize _what_ I want it to do. 3. I dont recommend JS. Sure you can make real apps that run independent of the browser, but it's going to be a harder road I promise. Stick to what the scientific community uses (drop into C if necessary [it's not]) because we often just "need to get it done" and py does that beautifully. -----------EDIT: I hit my comment limit for the night, so here is a reply to your reply:) There is no secret handshake:) I dont know where you were, but in pro-irc enviroments, people are relatively professional. #python is for sure. Almost nobody shows up and mentions gender btw. There are communication differences that are more common between guys, so that's easier for me for example, but you really _must_ have thick skin. Stuff that sounds dismissive is often just fast or frank advice, OR your question is too vague. Lurk a bit and observe. If you dont get a response, wait and improve your question and ask again. sometimes it takes a day for me to get an answer if it's a difficult topic, or I havent figured out how to ask it in a way that makes sense to other people. Dont assume anyone knows you are a woman, and while I appreciate it when someone makes it clear, especially if they want me to take it into account as there are communication norms that are just different (for some people!) you may find it easier to just not mention it. Or just clue it with your nic. IDK. Dont get stuck on that:) If you are getting a negative vibe, dont reply in-kind. As for freenode, here is the cliffnotes (look for a irc intro/howto and read it over). 1. find a open source irc client (I use weechat) 2. /connect irc.freenode.net 2. follow the on screen instructions to register your nic-name 4. /join #python 5. ask specific question. put some work into it. if you just want advice, say that. yep py is short for python (my github is in my profile, I think everything there is py) Often big graphics apps (like gimp) are written in C++. I dont recommend a beginner go down that route. A nice list: https://github.com/vinta/awesome-python https://github.com/vinta/awesome-python If it's not FOSS, then you cant modify it and/or you cant share your modifications. No problem:) This stuff is tough, it took me as least as long to learn it as it takes to become a good writer (I started on a Apple II in the 80's). As you get better, you learn _how_ to learn it faster. I sometimes spend a day on a single simple (in retrospect after you solve it!) problem. Learn to put it on hold and try another angle or a different problem. If I get stuck I open vi (the linux txt editor) and make a outline of what I want to be able to do. And _really_ use Linux. You will thank yourself later. Debian is a good intro. Personally I use (and cant live without) Gentoo, but the learning curve is steeper (but worth it!). ---- EDIT #2 I havent tried these, but they look like good starts: https://pythonprogramming.net/kivy-drawing-application-tutorial https://pythonprogramming.net/kivy-drawing-application-tutor... https://docs.python.org/3/library/turtle.html https://docs.python.org/3/library/turtle.html (I especially like this one because it's in the python standard library and looks like a fantastic way to get into the basics) Also checkout the game frameworks in that curated list above. It gets fun:) Stick to python3 only. I like this series: https://github.com/ubarredo/LearnPythonTheHardWay https://github.com/ubarredo/LearnPythonTheHardWay Also youtube has endless linux/python tutorials. That's a great way to see people using it in action.