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In 2008, when I was working in geothermal in Australia, I was at a meeting where the 2008 AUD price of a transmission line was quoted at 1.4 million/km. Multip

In 2008, when I was working in geothermal in Australia, I was at a meeting where the 2008 AUD price of a transmission line was quoted at 1.4 million/km. Multiply that by 1100 or so km across the nullarbor (rough guess; what really matters is the path between closest transmission lines of sufficient capacity) and you begin to see the scale of the problem. Oh, and Australia has roughly the land area of the lower 48 of the US, with roughly the population of Southern California. In other words, it's bloody empty.

grecy 7y ago
Add to that 95% of the population of Australia lives in 5% of the landmass. Yes, empty is an understatement.
a_bonobo 7y ago
To be nitpicky: you don't have to multiply by 1100 since Australia has two power networks that are not connected - one for Western Australia, one for the rest
- fghorow 7y ago
  And you are going to connect those two networks precisely how? The point in the article is that WA's grid is isolated from the Eastern States' grid. If there was any hope of "following the sun" (or indeed the wind) to leverage the geographic diversity that is Oz' one true strength, those networks would need to be interconnected.
  - newnewpdro 7y ago
    It's not like they're on opposite sides of the planet. Sounds like a case of perfect being the enemy of good enough. Split the energy storage capacity across the two and get on with it.
    - fghorow 7y ago
      These are resource problems. Economics is essentially everything. However, I agree that storage in both grids is a good way to go. The Eastern States have that already -- recently most visible in the Tesla battery project in SA, but also in pumped hydro in the Snowys. WA, not so much...
dwd 7y ago
This issue has been known for quite some time, so it sounds like they basically failed to plan ahead sufficiently. It would have been 5-10 years ago that GE put out research warning that electricity retailers needed to shift their fee models from charging actual power usage to charging to be connected to the grid (even if you only sometimes used power). They simply really need speed up investment in infrastructure that can take up any available free power. For example, there are two large seawater desalination plants in WA that run mostly off wind power. You would think water scarcity/security would be a top priority, so building more would be a priority. There is also some opportunity for pumped hydro (far cheaper to run and maintain than coal-fired power stations) despite the lack of a prominent mountain range. Just needs someone to put up the money. https://www.arena.gov.au/assets/2018/10/ANU-STORES-An-Atlas-of-Pumped-Hydro-Energy-Storage-The-Complete-Atlas.pdf https://www.arena.gov.au/assets/2018/10/ANU-STORES-An-Atlas-...
- kwhitefoot 7y ago
  > electricity retailers needed to shift their fee models from charging actual power usage to charging to be connected to the grid (even if you only sometimes used power). I can't speak for the rest of Europe and Scandinavia but that is how it has been in Norway for many decades. I buy my electricity from one entity and I pay a fixed fee for the connection plus a fee proportional to the usage for the transport to another entity that provides the connection.
senectus1 7y ago
While I dont disagree with the point of your statement. that number is the "gold plated" number and highly disputed. 1.4 million per KM is a bullshit value.
- fghorow 7y ago
  Fair enough. Do you have a more accurate number?
grecy 7y ago
I'm originally Australian and a huge hot springs nut. Out of curiosity, where in Australia is there geothermal potential?
- marakv2 7y ago
  According to this (1) quite good actually. But getting our government to do anything that isn't coal related. Pfft. (1)http://www.ga.gov.au/scientific-topics/energy/resources/geothermal-energy-resources http://www.ga.gov.au/scientific-topics/energy/resources/geot...
- fghorow 7y ago
  There's theoretical potential pretty much everywhere -- in that hot rocks exist underground, and some form of permeability can be created. Economical potential is quite limited, and technology dependent. In particular, the Cooper Basin project, while technically viable with demonstrated generation capacity, died after failing to get investment needed for a transmission line. At the same meeting I referred to in my top post, I also heard that the CB project was about 600 km away from the nearest transmission lines. N.B. I was not working on that project, so my knowledge is not firsthand. Birdsville Qld, is still the only operating geothermal power generation plant in Oz as far as I'm aware. If you are only interested in hot springs, there are developed baths on the Mornington Peninsula in Vic.
  - grecy 7y ago
    Thanks!
caf 7y ago
The SWIS has transmission out to Kalgoorlie and the South Australian network reaches Woomera - those are 1500km apart as the crow flies, but the transmission lines out to those places wouldn't have enough capacity for a worthwhile interconnection so you'd have to go further.

grecy 7y ago

Add to that 95% of the population of Australia lives in 5% of the landmass. Yes, empty is an understatement.

a_bonobo 7y ago

To be nitpicky: you don't have to multiply by 1100 since Australia has two power networks that are not connected - one for Western Australia, one for the rest

fghorow 7y ago
And you are going to connect those two networks precisely how? The point in the article is that WA's grid is isolated from the Eastern States' grid. If there was any hope of "following the sun" (or indeed the wind) to leverage the geographic diversity that is Oz' one true strength, those networks would need to be interconnected.
- newnewpdro 7y ago
  It's not like they're on opposite sides of the planet. Sounds like a case of perfect being the enemy of good enough. Split the energy storage capacity across the two and get on with it.
  - fghorow 7y ago
    These are resource problems. Economics is essentially everything. However, I agree that storage in both grids is a good way to go. The Eastern States have that already -- recently most visible in the Tesla battery project in SA, but also in pumped hydro in the Snowys. WA, not so much...

dwd 7y ago

This issue has been known for quite some time, so it sounds like they basically failed to plan ahead sufficiently. It would have been 5-10 years ago that GE put out research warning that electricity retailers needed to shift their fee models from charging actual power usage to charging to be connected to the grid (even if you only sometimes used power). They simply really need speed up investment in infrastructure that can take up any available free power. For example, there are two large seawater desalination plants in WA that run mostly off wind power. You would think water scarcity/security would be a top priority, so building more would be a priority. There is also some opportunity for pumped hydro (far cheaper to run and maintain than coal-fired power stations) despite the lack of a prominent mountain range. Just needs someone to put up the money. https://www.arena.gov.au/assets/2018/10/ANU-STORES-An-Atlas-of-Pumped-Hydro-Energy-Storage-The-Complete-Atlas.pdf https://www.arena.gov.au/assets/2018/10/ANU-STORES-An-Atlas-...

kwhitefoot 7y ago
> electricity retailers needed to shift their fee models from charging actual power usage to charging to be connected to the grid (even if you only sometimes used power). I can't speak for the rest of Europe and Scandinavia but that is how it has been in Norway for many decades. I buy my electricity from one entity and I pay a fixed fee for the connection plus a fee proportional to the usage for the transport to another entity that provides the connection.

senectus1 7y ago

While I dont disagree with the point of your statement. that number is the "gold plated" number and highly disputed. 1.4 million per KM is a bullshit value.

fghorow 7y ago
Fair enough. Do you have a more accurate number?

grecy 7y ago

I'm originally Australian and a huge hot springs nut. Out of curiosity, where in Australia is there geothermal potential?

marakv2 7y ago
According to this (1) quite good actually. But getting our government to do anything that isn't coal related. Pfft. (1)http://www.ga.gov.au/scientific-topics/energy/resources/geothermal-energy-resources http://www.ga.gov.au/scientific-topics/energy/resources/geot...
fghorow 7y ago
There's theoretical potential pretty much everywhere -- in that hot rocks exist underground, and some form of permeability can be created. Economical potential is quite limited, and technology dependent. In particular, the Cooper Basin project, while technically viable with demonstrated generation capacity, died after failing to get investment needed for a transmission line. At the same meeting I referred to in my top post, I also heard that the CB project was about 600 km away from the nearest transmission lines. N.B. I was not working on that project, so my knowledge is not firsthand. Birdsville Qld, is still the only operating geothermal power generation plant in Oz as far as I'm aware. If you are only interested in hot springs, there are developed baths on the Mornington Peninsula in Vic.
- grecy 7y ago
  Thanks!

caf 7y ago

The SWIS has transmission out to Kalgoorlie and the South Australian network reaches Woomera - those are 1500km apart as the crow flies, but the transmission lines out to those places wouldn't have enough capacity for a worthwhile interconnection so you'd have to go further.