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Interestingly, I haven't found pants that I like that are manufactured in the recent era, even with a reasonably large budget, compared to a laborer. (though I

by lsc 7y ago

Interestingly, I haven't found pants that I like that are manufactured in the recent era, even with a reasonably large budget, compared to a laborer. (though I guess thatching is moderately skilled labor, so maybe you would compare it to my computer-technician work?) I love my old Australian army surplus wool cargo slacks; manufactured in the early '50s, I can only find them on ebay. They are super nice; the wool is harsher than smartwool (and they need dry cleaning) but they are super comfortable, and come with a pocket for my reading device. The pockets are lined with thick, heavy cotton that keep stuff from falling out way better than the polyester of most modern wool slacks, and they don't have the lining that most modern wool slacks have, either. (I.. have issues with the feel of a lot of kinds of polyester against my skin, especially when sweating, and most of the wool slacks I've seen have polyester linings down the front to change the way the pants hang or soemthing) and these pants are about a thousand times better in the rain than cotton pants. But I don't think this is primarily the cost of the wool: Contrast this with shirts, where I can buy a really nice modern wool blend shirt for about a day or maybe day and a half of minimum wage, one that has all the moisture management and skin feel properties of wool but that holds up in the dryer pretty okay. I mean, I guess the same company makes some nice tights which make great undergarments for a Californian visiting a place that snows, so the problem is actually, I guess, that I'm unwilling to go out in public in tights without pants over them, and I live in a place where pants over tights is just too warm.

lostlogin 7y ago
Army surplus energy cargo pants that need dry cleaning? I assume these are dress uniform or something?
- lsc 7y ago
  most wool pants are dry clean only. I actually don't know anything about the actual context of these pants when in use. https://go-armynavy.com/military-surplus/collectibles/australian/australian-military-wool-pants.html https://go-armynavy.com/military-surplus/collectibles/austra... (I'm not vouching for that vendor, but I'm pretty sure that's what I've got. I got mine from ebay)
  - mirimir 7y ago
    What you want are boiled wool pants. They don't shrink. I have an old pair of ~work pants like that. I think that they were originally part of a suit.
    - lsc 7y ago
      Thanks for the suggestion. That does sound exactly like what I want. I'll be ordering a few pairs to see if it works out as well as it sounds.
      - mirimir 7y ago
        Cool. Boiled wool blankets are also great. Very warm. And very durable. Much like felt.
- dredmorbius 7y ago
  Prior to the rise of synthetics, wool was in fact among your best outdoor-wear options. Military uniforms and mountain climbers would wear it. Even swimsuits and cycling shorts were made of wool, the latter through the 1970s (though spandex Lycra nylon was being introduced). The transition point came in the 1950s and 1960s with the mass-marketing of synthetic fabrics and outdoor-wear, principally rip-stop nylon. Even then, a natural product, goose down, remained the preferred insulating material in parkas. Until the 1880s, the only clothing materials that existed were cotton, linen, a few other plant fibres (jute, woven grass), wool, leather, silk, furs, and (generally for military use) metal. In the 1880s, the first synthetics appeared: viscose rayon and cellulose (generally only used in collars and cuffs). In the decade of the 1930s, virtually all modern synthetic plastics were introduced, virtually all at Du Pont. Some of those saw introduction during WWII, though most didn't make widespread appearance until afterward. The seismic shift in fashions from the 1940s-1950s to the 1960s wasn't just due to the everyday adoption of what had been working-man's clothing (denim blue jeans and cotton tee-shirts), but synthetic fabrics and dyes. During the industrial revolution, it was thread-handling characteristics as well as cost which drove the adoption of cotton. Wool was too elastic, and tangled in machines (and was expensive). Silk was prohibitively expensive. Flax threads are insufficiently elastic, and would break. Cotton threads were just right, and could be spun, spindled, and woven on early mechanical equipment. Cost was relatively low, and England / Britain has ample supplies from its colonies in Egypt and the Americas.
NeedMoreTea 7y ago
Same with a lot of the famous, longer lived brands. Seems to tie in with the brand rather than the product becoming the important thing. Quality craters. Often the product(s) that build the brand in the first place, e.g. Craghoppers Kiwi outdoor trousers, been around since before me, but the quality seems to decline every couple of years. Now the only ones worth buying now are old ones on eBay and are unrecognisable compared to the ones sold in the 70s and 80s. The once cheap copies are now often better. Loads of other examples.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- lsc 7y ago
  I think that most of this effect is just how cheap precision is, and the fact that the cost of raw materials hasn't dropped; I mean, compare my ikea shelves to my parent's heavy metal furniture from the '60s. at first glance, the ikea stuff looks super cheap; but the tolerances! in many ways, my ikea furniture is a marvel of engineering. It's essentially a bit of cardboard encased in a very thin layer of whole wood, and it works! But I do like the feel on the older stuff that consumed more material.
  - NeedMoreTea 7y ago
    I think that may be part of the story, and I suspect heavily that overall we are using far more materials than in my parents or grandparents day. I still have a pair of Craghoppers I bought in the 1980s, and a good ten years of life was to be expected. When I eventually stopped buying two-three years was nearer the mark. Having aged 40 years, I suspect if anything they get lighter use today than way back when. :) Same for furniture - the cardboard+wood miracle of engineering may work for a while, but have kids or move home once and it'll be beyond its limits. The bookcase my great-grandfather made as part of his cabinet maker apprenticeship is doing fine... One joint is a little sloppy and probably needs a little maintenance, but it's moved house (and family) dozens of times... One thing I am sure of though - for brand profit, trousers that are worn out under five years are far better than those that might last fifteen. Especially if you can trade off retained customer belief in a maker of good quality - which few of them are any more.
mirimir 7y ago
For ~dress, I wear oversize black raw silk women's tai chi pants. With the tight bottoms cut off, and hemmed. So they're loose, with a little flare. For heavy pants, I wear black cotton gi bottoms. I've tried to find heavy raw silk, but it's not readily available.

by lsc 7y ago

lostlogin 7y ago

Army surplus energy cargo pants that need dry cleaning? I assume these are dress uniform or something?

lsc 7y ago
most wool pants are dry clean only. I actually don't know anything about the actual context of these pants when in use. https://go-armynavy.com/military-surplus/collectibles/australian/australian-military-wool-pants.html https://go-armynavy.com/military-surplus/collectibles/austra... (I'm not vouching for that vendor, but I'm pretty sure that's what I've got. I got mine from ebay)
- mirimir 7y ago
  What you want are boiled wool pants. They don't shrink. I have an old pair of ~work pants like that. I think that they were originally part of a suit.
  - lsc 7y ago
    Thanks for the suggestion. That does sound exactly like what I want. I'll be ordering a few pairs to see if it works out as well as it sounds.
    - mirimir 7y ago
      Cool. Boiled wool blankets are also great. Very warm. And very durable. Much like felt.
dredmorbius 7y ago
Prior to the rise of synthetics, wool was in fact among your best outdoor-wear options. Military uniforms and mountain climbers would wear it. Even swimsuits and cycling shorts were made of wool, the latter through the 1970s (though spandex Lycra nylon was being introduced). The transition point came in the 1950s and 1960s with the mass-marketing of synthetic fabrics and outdoor-wear, principally rip-stop nylon. Even then, a natural product, goose down, remained the preferred insulating material in parkas. Until the 1880s, the only clothing materials that existed were cotton, linen, a few other plant fibres (jute, woven grass), wool, leather, silk, furs, and (generally for military use) metal. In the 1880s, the first synthetics appeared: viscose rayon and cellulose (generally only used in collars and cuffs). In the decade of the 1930s, virtually all modern synthetic plastics were introduced, virtually all at Du Pont. Some of those saw introduction during WWII, though most didn't make widespread appearance until afterward. The seismic shift in fashions from the 1940s-1950s to the 1960s wasn't just due to the everyday adoption of what had been working-man's clothing (denim blue jeans and cotton tee-shirts), but synthetic fabrics and dyes. During the industrial revolution, it was thread-handling characteristics as well as cost which drove the adoption of cotton. Wool was too elastic, and tangled in machines (and was expensive). Silk was prohibitively expensive. Flax threads are insufficiently elastic, and would break. Cotton threads were just right, and could be spun, spindled, and woven on early mechanical equipment. Cost was relatively low, and England / Britain has ample supplies from its colonies in Egypt and the Americas.

NeedMoreTea 7y ago

Same with a lot of the famous, longer lived brands. Seems to tie in with the brand rather than the product becoming the important thing. Quality craters. Often the product(s) that build the brand in the first place, e.g. Craghoppers Kiwi outdoor trousers, been around since before me, but the quality seems to decline every couple of years. Now the only ones worth buying now are old ones on eBay and are unrecognisable compared to the ones sold in the 70s and 80s. The once cheap copies are now often better. Loads of other examples.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
lsc 7y ago
I think that most of this effect is just how cheap precision is, and the fact that the cost of raw materials hasn't dropped; I mean, compare my ikea shelves to my parent's heavy metal furniture from the '60s. at first glance, the ikea stuff looks super cheap; but the tolerances! in many ways, my ikea furniture is a marvel of engineering. It's essentially a bit of cardboard encased in a very thin layer of whole wood, and it works! But I do like the feel on the older stuff that consumed more material.
- NeedMoreTea 7y ago
  I think that may be part of the story, and I suspect heavily that overall we are using far more materials than in my parents or grandparents day. I still have a pair of Craghoppers I bought in the 1980s, and a good ten years of life was to be expected. When I eventually stopped buying two-three years was nearer the mark. Having aged 40 years, I suspect if anything they get lighter use today than way back when. :) Same for furniture - the cardboard+wood miracle of engineering may work for a while, but have kids or move home once and it'll be beyond its limits. The bookcase my great-grandfather made as part of his cabinet maker apprenticeship is doing fine... One joint is a little sloppy and probably needs a little maintenance, but it's moved house (and family) dozens of times... One thing I am sure of though - for brand profit, trousers that are worn out under five years are far better than those that might last fifteen. Especially if you can trade off retained customer belief in a maker of good quality - which few of them are any more.

mirimir 7y ago

For ~dress, I wear oversize black raw silk women's tai chi pants. With the tight bottoms cut off, and hemmed. So they're loose, with a little flare. For heavy pants, I wear black cotton gi bottoms. I've tried to find heavy raw silk, but it's not readily available.