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I think subscriptions are fine; it is the banks that give power to corporations by making it impossible to control who bills your accounts. If you could easily

I think subscriptions are fine; it is the banks that give power to corporations by making it impossible to control who bills your accounts. If you could easily see recurring billing charges and cancel on your bank's end easily, companies would have to step up and offer a useful service.

mlazos 7y ago
I agree but at the same time I feel like companies are bolting “as a service” onto literally everything. Take Rosetta Stone for instance. There’s zero need or benefit from that to being subscription but there it is. Games as a subscription also make we want to die unless it’s an MMO where you’re constantly getting new content.
- thebean11 7y ago
  I don't know, I was falling into a pattern in games where I kept spending $40-60 just to find out I don't really like a game. A subscription service lets me try out a bunch of stuff and sink time into what I actually like.
  - baroffoos 7y ago
    Steam lets you refund a game for any reason if you have under 2 hours playtime. I have never found that I liked a game for the first 2 hours and didn't like it at all after that.
coldtea 7y ago
>I think subscriptions are fine Is that correlated with having ample money to pay for them?
- swagasaurus-rex 7y ago
  Many useful things take money to accomplish, I would be suspicious of anything that provides a service for free. That being said, health insurance is an example of a subscription in the USA I find predatory.
TeMPOraL 7y ago
Part of the problem is that they handle much differently than purchases. To buy something you need to have enough money at some point in time. Subscriptions require you to have a stable cashflow. The former is usually easier than the latter. On top of that, subscriptions are also relationships you have to keep track of. With a lot of subscriptions, it can become overwhelming.
- aidenn0 7y ago
  Most subscriptions are on credit cards, and having available credit implies a stable cashflow (even if you are operating at a loss).
  - ajdlinux 7y ago
    Visa/Mastercard debit cards are a thing.
    - TeMPOraL 7y ago
      In fact, I'd argue that credit cards are US thing. You can pay for most stuff on-line with debit cards just fine. Over the past decade, I had to use PayPal maybe 3 times, because some braindead payment system wouldn't accept debit cards. (It may differ between classes and countries, but over here in Poland around people I know, having a private credit card is like shaving with a straight razor - it's awesome if you can handle it without hurting yourself, but most people can't and are smart enough to not even try.)
      - ajdlinux 7y ago
        You can pay for almost anything online with a debit card if you get a Visa/Mastercard debit card, which is included with practically every bank account over here in Australia. Obviously Visa/MC charge merchants more to accept their debit cards than the national domestic EFT payment networks, but it works well from the consumer experience point of view. Over here it's quite normal for middle-class people to have personal credit cards, but it's not as important for building up a good credit rating or anything like that as it is in the US.
koyote 7y ago
In the UK that is (and has been for a while) the case: If you set up a direct debit (allow a company to withdraw money from your account) you will be able to view all the details about it on your web banking (which company, how much and when the last debit occurred). But most importantly, you can unilaterally cancel the direct debit from within the web banking interface. It will notify the company that you cancelled it on your side and you are guarnateed to not have any money withdrawn from them. This makes life easier but does not solve the problem completely. Cancelling a direct debit does not cancel any debt you have (obviously) but it also doesn't cancel your account/contract with the company. So there is nothing stopping the company from continuing to bill you. It will just make it harder for the company to recuperate their money.
- tehwebguy 7y ago
  Interesting, what if your bank account is a UK account but with a US based bank that also has branches in the UK (is that even a thing)?
  - koyote 7y ago
    This is UK specific, so if the bank has a UK banking licence and it implements direct debit then they have to adhere to those laws and regulations.
ceejayoz 7y ago
PayPal has many issues, but this is one of the things they get right, and I tend to steer in their direction for anything recurring as a result. You can cancel a recurring payment with a few clicks.
- ianai 7y ago
  Good to know! Is it all administrable from mobile?
icebraining 7y ago
SEPA direct debit (and the earlier non-SEPA versions) allow the bank to do just that: show a list of charges, set monthly limits and cancel the authorization. Unfortunately, most foreign companies don't offer SEPA, but my bank also offers virtual CCs that are tied to a single biller, so not only I can revoke them at any time, they are also useless if leaked. Regular CCs are a pain in comparison.
orev 7y ago
People try to do this by using one time use credit card numbers, but being able to easily cancel the payment method does not release you from the agreement you made with the vendor for their service. It’s simple contract law and I can see how banks would not want to wade into those murky waters.

mlazos 7y ago

I agree but at the same time I feel like companies are bolting “as a service” onto literally everything. Take Rosetta Stone for instance. There’s zero need or benefit from that to being subscription but there it is. Games as a subscription also make we want to die unless it’s an MMO where you’re constantly getting new content.

thebean11 7y ago
I don't know, I was falling into a pattern in games where I kept spending $40-60 just to find out I don't really like a game. A subscription service lets me try out a bunch of stuff and sink time into what I actually like.
- baroffoos 7y ago
  Steam lets you refund a game for any reason if you have under 2 hours playtime. I have never found that I liked a game for the first 2 hours and didn't like it at all after that.

coldtea 7y ago

>I think subscriptions are fine Is that correlated with having ample money to pay for them?

swagasaurus-rex 7y ago
Many useful things take money to accomplish, I would be suspicious of anything that provides a service for free. That being said, health insurance is an example of a subscription in the USA I find predatory.

TeMPOraL 7y ago

Part of the problem is that they handle much differently than purchases. To buy something you need to have enough money at some point in time. Subscriptions require you to have a stable cashflow. The former is usually easier than the latter. On top of that, subscriptions are also relationships you have to keep track of. With a lot of subscriptions, it can become overwhelming.

aidenn0 7y ago
Most subscriptions are on credit cards, and having available credit implies a stable cashflow (even if you are operating at a loss).
- ajdlinux 7y ago
  Visa/Mastercard debit cards are a thing.
  - TeMPOraL 7y ago
    In fact, I'd argue that credit cards are US thing. You can pay for most stuff on-line with debit cards just fine. Over the past decade, I had to use PayPal maybe 3 times, because some braindead payment system wouldn't accept debit cards. (It may differ between classes and countries, but over here in Poland around people I know, having a private credit card is like shaving with a straight razor - it's awesome if you can handle it without hurting yourself, but most people can't and are smart enough to not even try.)
    - ajdlinux 7y ago
      You can pay for almost anything online with a debit card if you get a Visa/Mastercard debit card, which is included with practically every bank account over here in Australia. Obviously Visa/MC charge merchants more to accept their debit cards than the national domestic EFT payment networks, but it works well from the consumer experience point of view. Over here it's quite normal for middle-class people to have personal credit cards, but it's not as important for building up a good credit rating or anything like that as it is in the US.

koyote 7y ago

In the UK that is (and has been for a while) the case: If you set up a direct debit (allow a company to withdraw money from your account) you will be able to view all the details about it on your web banking (which company, how much and when the last debit occurred). But most importantly, you can unilaterally cancel the direct debit from within the web banking interface. It will notify the company that you cancelled it on your side and you are guarnateed to not have any money withdrawn from them. This makes life easier but does not solve the problem completely. Cancelling a direct debit does not cancel any debt you have (obviously) but it also doesn't cancel your account/contract with the company. So there is nothing stopping the company from continuing to bill you. It will just make it harder for the company to recuperate their money.

tehwebguy 7y ago
Interesting, what if your bank account is a UK account but with a US based bank that also has branches in the UK (is that even a thing)?
- koyote 7y ago
  This is UK specific, so if the bank has a UK banking licence and it implements direct debit then they have to adhere to those laws and regulations.

ceejayoz 7y ago

PayPal has many issues, but this is one of the things they get right, and I tend to steer in their direction for anything recurring as a result. You can cancel a recurring payment with a few clicks.

ianai 7y ago
Good to know! Is it all administrable from mobile?

icebraining 7y ago

SEPA direct debit (and the earlier non-SEPA versions) allow the bank to do just that: show a list of charges, set monthly limits and cancel the authorization. Unfortunately, most foreign companies don't offer SEPA, but my bank also offers virtual CCs that are tied to a single biller, so not only I can revoke them at any time, they are also useless if leaked. Regular CCs are a pain in comparison.

orev 7y ago

People try to do this by using one time use credit card numbers, but being able to easily cancel the payment method does not release you from the agreement you made with the vendor for their service. It’s simple contract law and I can see how banks would not want to wade into those murky waters.