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subscribe to read hahahah For one, I hope subscriptions die. It's a pernicious trend that is borderline fraud for consumers (like gyms, profiting from users w

subscribe to read hahahah For one, I hope subscriptions die. It's a pernicious trend that is borderline fraud for consumers (like gyms, profiting from users who simply forget to unsubscribe or making it painfully hard to unsubscribe). It's also exclusionary for most of the world for whom the subscription price might be a year's income. With downloadable software it was kind of possible to find a crack online, but web apps and content make it almost impossible.It also makes individual property ownership impossible. we need honest,anonymized payments on the web.

swagasaurus-rex 7y ago
I think subscriptions are fine; it is the banks that give power to corporations by making it impossible to control who bills your accounts. If you could easily see recurring billing charges and cancel on your bank's end easily, companies would have to step up and offer a useful service.
- mlazos 7y ago
  I agree but at the same time I feel like companies are bolting “as a service” onto literally everything. Take Rosetta Stone for instance. There’s zero need or benefit from that to being subscription but there it is. Games as a subscription also make we want to die unless it’s an MMO where you’re constantly getting new content.
  - thebean11 7y ago
    I don't know, I was falling into a pattern in games where I kept spending $40-60 just to find out I don't really like a game. A subscription service lets me try out a bunch of stuff and sink time into what I actually like.
    - baroffoos 7y ago
      Steam lets you refund a game for any reason if you have under 2 hours playtime. I have never found that I liked a game for the first 2 hours and didn't like it at all after that.
- coldtea 7y ago
  >I think subscriptions are fine Is that correlated with having ample money to pay for them?
  - swagasaurus-rex 7y ago
    Many useful things take money to accomplish, I would be suspicious of anything that provides a service for free. That being said, health insurance is an example of a subscription in the USA I find predatory.
- TeMPOraL 7y ago
  Part of the problem is that they handle much differently than purchases. To buy something you need to have enough money at some point in time. Subscriptions require you to have a stable cashflow. The former is usually easier than the latter. On top of that, subscriptions are also relationships you have to keep track of. With a lot of subscriptions, it can become overwhelming.
  - aidenn0 7y ago
    Most subscriptions are on credit cards, and having available credit implies a stable cashflow (even if you are operating at a loss).
    - ajdlinux 7y ago
      Visa/Mastercard debit cards are a thing.
      - TeMPOraL 7y ago
        In fact, I'd argue that credit cards are US thing. You can pay for most stuff on-line with debit cards just fine. Over the past decade, I had to use PayPal maybe 3 times, because some braindead payment system wouldn't accept debit cards. (It may differ between classes and countries, but over here in Poland around people I know, having a private credit card is like shaving with a straight razor - it's awesome if you can handle it without hurting yourself, but most people can't and are smart enough to not even try.)
        ajdlinux 7y ago
        You can pay for almost anything online with a debit card if you get a Visa/Mastercard debit card, which is included with practically every bank account over here in Australia. Obviously Visa/MC charge merchants more to accept their debit cards than the national domestic EFT payment networks, but it works well from the consumer experience point of view. Over here it's quite normal for middle-class people to have personal credit cards, but it's not as important for building up a good credit rating or anything like that as it is in the US.
- koyote 7y ago
  In the UK that is (and has been for a while) the case: If you set up a direct debit (allow a company to withdraw money from your account) you will be able to view all the details about it on your web banking (which company, how much and when the last debit occurred). But most importantly, you can unilaterally cancel the direct debit from within the web banking interface. It will notify the company that you cancelled it on your side and you are guarnateed to not have any money withdrawn from them. This makes life easier but does not solve the problem completely. Cancelling a direct debit does not cancel any debt you have (obviously) but it also doesn't cancel your account/contract with the company. So there is nothing stopping the company from continuing to bill you. It will just make it harder for the company to recuperate their money.
  - tehwebguy 7y ago
    Interesting, what if your bank account is a UK account but with a US based bank that also has branches in the UK (is that even a thing)?
    - koyote 7y ago
      This is UK specific, so if the bank has a UK banking licence and it implements direct debit then they have to adhere to those laws and regulations.
- ceejayoz 7y ago
  PayPal has many issues, but this is one of the things they get right, and I tend to steer in their direction for anything recurring as a result. You can cancel a recurring payment with a few clicks.
  - ianai 7y ago
    Good to know! Is it all administrable from mobile?
- icebraining 7y ago
  SEPA direct debit (and the earlier non-SEPA versions) allow the bank to do just that: show a list of charges, set monthly limits and cancel the authorization. Unfortunately, most foreign companies don't offer SEPA, but my bank also offers virtual CCs that are tied to a single biller, so not only I can revoke them at any time, they are also useless if leaked. Regular CCs are a pain in comparison.
- orev 7y ago
  People try to do this by using one time use credit card numbers, but being able to easily cancel the payment method does not release you from the agreement you made with the vendor for their service. It’s simple contract law and I can see how banks would not want to wade into those murky waters.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
unraveller 7y ago
I'd like to see free trials regulated. 80% of the ongoing price should be the maximum discount allowed for any first billing period. It's like a tollway on-ramp advertising "free* toll for X miles, for the next Y minutes" ... "(*) after which, as much as we care to charge". It stifles assessment of the value for the service as a whole, which is the stated point of a trial. A cheap sentiment is understood but an expensive rate is locked-in. It's a Fake Gesture. Dark patterns at the off-ramp deserve more attention too. Try to unsubscribe from netflix and they would just as soon give you an extra one or two months free, asking you to cancel later. They know something finally prompted you to the task after a few months of sparse usage which may not happen the next time. Before you know it, you helped make a trusted account on a friends device and it becomes easier to justify the expense.
barberousse 7y ago
Funny to read this, VISA near silently installed a program whereby replacing your Debit/Card (lost, stolen, etc) automatically updates that card everywhere it is being used a payment method. You can't even cancel a card and see what dies. You have to opt out of this program.
- m463 7y ago
  To be honest, I don't mind this at all.
m463 7y ago
"100% of our readership agrees..."

swagasaurus-rex 7y ago

I think subscriptions are fine; it is the banks that give power to corporations by making it impossible to control who bills your accounts. If you could easily see recurring billing charges and cancel on your bank's end easily, companies would have to step up and offer a useful service.

mlazos 7y ago
I agree but at the same time I feel like companies are bolting “as a service” onto literally everything. Take Rosetta Stone for instance. There’s zero need or benefit from that to being subscription but there it is. Games as a subscription also make we want to die unless it’s an MMO where you’re constantly getting new content.
- thebean11 7y ago
  I don't know, I was falling into a pattern in games where I kept spending $40-60 just to find out I don't really like a game. A subscription service lets me try out a bunch of stuff and sink time into what I actually like.
  - baroffoos 7y ago
    Steam lets you refund a game for any reason if you have under 2 hours playtime. I have never found that I liked a game for the first 2 hours and didn't like it at all after that.
coldtea 7y ago
>I think subscriptions are fine Is that correlated with having ample money to pay for them?
- swagasaurus-rex 7y ago
  Many useful things take money to accomplish, I would be suspicious of anything that provides a service for free. That being said, health insurance is an example of a subscription in the USA I find predatory.
TeMPOraL 7y ago
Part of the problem is that they handle much differently than purchases. To buy something you need to have enough money at some point in time. Subscriptions require you to have a stable cashflow. The former is usually easier than the latter. On top of that, subscriptions are also relationships you have to keep track of. With a lot of subscriptions, it can become overwhelming.
- aidenn0 7y ago
  Most subscriptions are on credit cards, and having available credit implies a stable cashflow (even if you are operating at a loss).
  - ajdlinux 7y ago
    Visa/Mastercard debit cards are a thing.
    - TeMPOraL 7y ago
      In fact, I'd argue that credit cards are US thing. You can pay for most stuff on-line with debit cards just fine. Over the past decade, I had to use PayPal maybe 3 times, because some braindead payment system wouldn't accept debit cards. (It may differ between classes and countries, but over here in Poland around people I know, having a private credit card is like shaving with a straight razor - it's awesome if you can handle it without hurting yourself, but most people can't and are smart enough to not even try.)
      - ajdlinux 7y ago
        You can pay for almost anything online with a debit card if you get a Visa/Mastercard debit card, which is included with practically every bank account over here in Australia. Obviously Visa/MC charge merchants more to accept their debit cards than the national domestic EFT payment networks, but it works well from the consumer experience point of view. Over here it's quite normal for middle-class people to have personal credit cards, but it's not as important for building up a good credit rating or anything like that as it is in the US.
koyote 7y ago
In the UK that is (and has been for a while) the case: If you set up a direct debit (allow a company to withdraw money from your account) you will be able to view all the details about it on your web banking (which company, how much and when the last debit occurred). But most importantly, you can unilaterally cancel the direct debit from within the web banking interface. It will notify the company that you cancelled it on your side and you are guarnateed to not have any money withdrawn from them. This makes life easier but does not solve the problem completely. Cancelling a direct debit does not cancel any debt you have (obviously) but it also doesn't cancel your account/contract with the company. So there is nothing stopping the company from continuing to bill you. It will just make it harder for the company to recuperate their money.
- tehwebguy 7y ago
  Interesting, what if your bank account is a UK account but with a US based bank that also has branches in the UK (is that even a thing)?
  - koyote 7y ago
    This is UK specific, so if the bank has a UK banking licence and it implements direct debit then they have to adhere to those laws and regulations.
ceejayoz 7y ago
PayPal has many issues, but this is one of the things they get right, and I tend to steer in their direction for anything recurring as a result. You can cancel a recurring payment with a few clicks.
- ianai 7y ago
  Good to know! Is it all administrable from mobile?
icebraining 7y ago
SEPA direct debit (and the earlier non-SEPA versions) allow the bank to do just that: show a list of charges, set monthly limits and cancel the authorization. Unfortunately, most foreign companies don't offer SEPA, but my bank also offers virtual CCs that are tied to a single biller, so not only I can revoke them at any time, they are also useless if leaked. Regular CCs are a pain in comparison.
orev 7y ago
People try to do this by using one time use credit card numbers, but being able to easily cancel the payment method does not release you from the agreement you made with the vendor for their service. It’s simple contract law and I can see how banks would not want to wade into those murky waters.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

unraveller 7y ago

I'd like to see free trials regulated. 80% of the ongoing price should be the maximum discount allowed for any first billing period. It's like a tollway on-ramp advertising "free* toll for X miles, for the next Y minutes" ... "(*) after which, as much as we care to charge". It stifles assessment of the value for the service as a whole, which is the stated point of a trial. A cheap sentiment is understood but an expensive rate is locked-in. It's a Fake Gesture. Dark patterns at the off-ramp deserve more attention too. Try to unsubscribe from netflix and they would just as soon give you an extra one or two months free, asking you to cancel later. They know something finally prompted you to the task after a few months of sparse usage which may not happen the next time. Before you know it, you helped make a trusted account on a friends device and it becomes easier to justify the expense.

barberousse 7y ago

Funny to read this, VISA near silently installed a program whereby replacing your Debit/Card (lost, stolen, etc) automatically updates that card everywhere it is being used a payment method. You can't even cancel a card and see what dies. You have to opt out of this program.

m463 7y ago
To be honest, I don't mind this at all.

m463 7y ago

"100% of our readership agrees..."