9 ms·

LibrePCB 0.1.3 released, now with DRC

138 points by dbrgn 7y ago

dbrgn 7y ago
Before people start asking: Comparison with KiCAD and Eagle: https://librepcb.org/compare/ https://librepcb.org/compare/ Talk by Urban that explains why he started LibrePCB, and how the library concepts are different from other similar tools like KiCAD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vu-h5y6tK34 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vu-h5y6tK34 (Slides: https://archive.fosdem.org/2018/schedule/event/cad_librepcb/attachments/slides/2267/export/events/attachments/cad_librepcb/slides/2267/librepcb_slides.pdf https://archive.fosdem.org/2018/schedule/event/cad_librepcb/...) If you want to try it: https://docs.librepcb.org/ https://docs.librepcb.org/ Previous HN discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18569969 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18569969
- StavrosK 7y ago
  I was at FOSDEM 2018, when LibrePCB and Horizon EDA were presented, and they both looked very interesting. I will try LibrePCB for some small boards I want to make, the library concept sounds like something we sorely need.
  - dbrgn 7y ago
    There will be another LibrePCB talk at FOSDEM next year!
nrp 7y ago
It's fantastic that LibrePCB exists to solve the key pain points around KiCad, but I wonder what the end state is. Network effects come into play pretty strongly here with libraries, reference designs, and community knowledge. It took years of improvements and Eagle getting heavily monetized by Autodesk for KiCad to become the de facto EDA tool for hobbyists and open source hardware developers. This space isn't that large. Is there a scenario where LibrePCB gets enough critical mass behind it to be competitive with KiCad, or will KiCad gradually improve and continue to grow to prevent that from ever happening?
- dbrgn 7y ago
  If there can be multiple graphics editing programs (GIMP, Inkscape, Krita, ...) and multiple 3D modelling tools (FreeCAD, OpenSCAD, Blender, Wings3D, ...) why shouldn't the space be big enough for multiple EDA tools (KiCAD, LibrePCB, Fritzing, Horizon, ...)?
  - atoav 7y ago
    As a Horizon contributor (and avid Blender user) I see this in a similar way: I think trying different conceptual approaches is something everyone can profit from. Every single tool in your list has it’s own pros and cons and some of them are targeting a different audience altogether (e.g. Fritzing). I liked the ease of use with which LibrePCB allowed users to use existing Libraries, so I proposed a similar thing for Horizon.
    - panpanna 7y ago
      Speaking of which, Fritzing (and it's older cousin Arduino) desperately need some competition. As a tool targeting beginners I feel it deserves a better UI (some stability would not hurt either).
      - atoav 7y ago
        I think Horizon is aiming more at professionals or even small teams. carrotindustries (who started the project) said he was very much inspired by Altium, but wasn’t happy with existing open source EDA tools. So it is unlikely this scope will change unless someone new enters the game. I try my best in helping to keep the entry barrier low and to smooth rough edges or paper cuts where needed. My goal is to make it not impossible for people who start out with electronics, while still maintaining a tool professionals can work with. Documentation is a big part of that: https://horizon-eda.readthedocs.io/en/latest/feature-overview.html https://horizon-eda.readthedocs.io/en/latest/feature-overvie...
  - DSMan195276 7y ago
    I don't think it's a hugely controversial statement to say that the hobbyist circuit/pcb design scene is a lot smaller then than the number of hobbyist graphic designers. So the question is more can the community actually support two/three of these programs while also offering enough features for both to be usable - or do we just get two/three effectively unusable programs with no library support.
q3k 7y ago
See also: HorizonEDA [1], which I've used for a handful of projects and are really happy with - mostly due to how much its library/parts UX is better than anything I've every used before. [1] - https://github.com/horizon-eda/horizon https://github.com/horizon-eda/horizon
- atoav 7y ago
  I agree. Used it for multiple projects already. As one of the main contributers to the parts library I especially like Horizon's parts pool concept for these reasons: - the modularity (+inheritance) allows you to reuse a lot of existing stuff and change things in one place while affecting all - the simple json format allows you to create parts/packages/etc from scripts very fast - the package footprint editor is great and has generation scripts for a ton of existing packages (SOIC, QFN, etc.) I heard it was planned to release a 1.0 on the next FOSDEM in january.
- wrs 7y ago
  I discovered Horizon just now from the LibrePCB site and will certainly give it a try. The part management looks so much more sensible than anything else.
panpanna 7y ago
I started using librepcb for some smaller projects last year after having some issues with kicad. My thoughts after manufacturing ~10 boards: * It's simple, but what is there works reliably. * Library management works really well. * There are some issues with grids and alignment * DRC was available in the ui but could not find any errors (have not tested 0.1.3 yet). * No auto place/route. Horrible default placement. * Minimal manufacturing support but what is there works I moved from kicad when my old designs started looking different/broken due to updated components (!!). How can kicad team allow this?
- dbrgn 7y ago
  Thanks for your feedback! Great to hear from people that are using LibrePCB :) I agree with most of these things. Note: I think there was no DRC available in the board editor before 0.1.3, only an ERC which reported things like unplaced components. In 0.1.3 you have an actual DRC that checks things like copper clearance, minimum drill diameter, etc. PS: If you have a nice project to share, feel free to post it at https://librepcb.discourse.group/t/projects-madewithlibrepcb/99 https://librepcb.discourse.group/t/projects-madewithlibrepcb... !
  - panpanna 7y ago
    You are right. But IIRC unplaced components was the only thing the ERC could detect :(
lukego 7y ago
Thanks for posting this. I'm planning to start work on my first ever PCB tomorrow and I'll try learning this instead of KiCAD and see if I need to switch or not.
- panpanna 7y ago
  If you are completely new to PCB design and manufacturing I would recommend kicad instead. I like them both but kicad has excellent tutorials on all aspects of the process. See for example the Conceptual Electronics videos on YouTube.
ivoras 7y ago
Cute, but EasyEDA is where the hobbyists are at right now. They realised that to win hearts and minds, the winning combination is to have a PCB editor, a components shop, a PCB manufacturing service and a PCB SMD assembly service all integrated (up to a point) in a single product.
- russh 7y ago
  I've been using EasyEDA for the last two years and have started ordering some of my parts from as well. It's worked pretty well for me, just be sure you verify the pinouts and packages for any user generated parts.
- dbrgn 7y ago
  You're dismissing a free non-commercial open-source cross platform EDA software project by promoting a web-based closed source commercial EDA tool by saying "that's where hobbyists are" without even showing any evidence for that (and in a dismissive tone). I think you're on the wrong forum.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
awalton 7y ago
Great. Now let's work on standardizing a footprint description language for components so we don't have to create a new footprint library for every new tool on the planet. (And maybe even so manufacturers will just release their footprints using that format, so we don't have to struggle there either).
fizixer 7y ago
Engineering $/w industry in general is full of proprietary, fleecing, outdated, and $mug, bloatware and crapware. Any open-source effort is welcome. If it were up to me, I'd dedicate the rest of my life to developing open-source engineering s/w alternatives, so I could play a small part in thoroughly crushing the commercial land$cape of engineering $$$$ware.
dev-il 7y ago
Is it possible to import/convert KiCAD libraries? Library coverage of the gazillion of available components is something that takes a lot of work and time. Even KiCAD with its head start, and higher user count that comes with it, is still lacking a lot of components. So whatever one thinks of KiCAD's libraries or library management… it would still make a huge difference for the user to have an import function or conversion tools so as to not have to start pretty much from scratch as long as the library coverage is lacking.

138 points by dbrgn 7y ago

Before people start asking: Comparison with KiCAD and Eagle: https://librepcb.org/compare/ https://librepcb.org/compare/ Talk by Urban that explains why he started LibrePCB, and how the library concepts are different from other similar tools like KiCAD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vu-h5y6tK34 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vu-h5y6tK34 (Slides: https://archive.fosdem.org/2018/schedule/event/cad_librepcb/attachments/slides/2267/export/events/attachments/cad_librepcb/slides/2267/librepcb_slides.pdf https://archive.fosdem.org/2018/schedule/event/cad_librepcb/...) If you want to try it: https://docs.librepcb.org/ https://docs.librepcb.org/ Previous HN discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18569969 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18569969

StavrosK 7y ago
I was at FOSDEM 2018, when LibrePCB and Horizon EDA were presented, and they both looked very interesting. I will try LibrePCB for some small boards I want to make, the library concept sounds like something we sorely need.
- dbrgn 7y ago
  There will be another LibrePCB talk at FOSDEM next year!

nrp 7y ago

It's fantastic that LibrePCB exists to solve the key pain points around KiCad, but I wonder what the end state is. Network effects come into play pretty strongly here with libraries, reference designs, and community knowledge. It took years of improvements and Eagle getting heavily monetized by Autodesk for KiCad to become the de facto EDA tool for hobbyists and open source hardware developers. This space isn't that large. Is there a scenario where LibrePCB gets enough critical mass behind it to be competitive with KiCad, or will KiCad gradually improve and continue to grow to prevent that from ever happening?

dbrgn 7y ago
If there can be multiple graphics editing programs (GIMP, Inkscape, Krita, ...) and multiple 3D modelling tools (FreeCAD, OpenSCAD, Blender, Wings3D, ...) why shouldn't the space be big enough for multiple EDA tools (KiCAD, LibrePCB, Fritzing, Horizon, ...)?
- atoav 7y ago
  As a Horizon contributor (and avid Blender user) I see this in a similar way: I think trying different conceptual approaches is something everyone can profit from. Every single tool in your list has it’s own pros and cons and some of them are targeting a different audience altogether (e.g. Fritzing). I liked the ease of use with which LibrePCB allowed users to use existing Libraries, so I proposed a similar thing for Horizon.
  - panpanna 7y ago
    Speaking of which, Fritzing (and it's older cousin Arduino) desperately need some competition. As a tool targeting beginners I feel it deserves a better UI (some stability would not hurt either).
    - atoav 7y ago
      I think Horizon is aiming more at professionals or even small teams. carrotindustries (who started the project) said he was very much inspired by Altium, but wasn’t happy with existing open source EDA tools. So it is unlikely this scope will change unless someone new enters the game. I try my best in helping to keep the entry barrier low and to smooth rough edges or paper cuts where needed. My goal is to make it not impossible for people who start out with electronics, while still maintaining a tool professionals can work with. Documentation is a big part of that: https://horizon-eda.readthedocs.io/en/latest/feature-overview.html https://horizon-eda.readthedocs.io/en/latest/feature-overvie...
- DSMan195276 7y ago
  I don't think it's a hugely controversial statement to say that the hobbyist circuit/pcb design scene is a lot smaller then than the number of hobbyist graphic designers. So the question is more can the community actually support two/three of these programs while also offering enough features for both to be usable - or do we just get two/three effectively unusable programs with no library support.

q3k 7y ago

See also: HorizonEDA [1], which I've used for a handful of projects and are really happy with - mostly due to how much its library/parts UX is better than anything I've every used before. [1] - https://github.com/horizon-eda/horizon https://github.com/horizon-eda/horizon

atoav 7y ago
I agree. Used it for multiple projects already. As one of the main contributers to the parts library I especially like Horizon's parts pool concept for these reasons: - the modularity (+inheritance) allows you to reuse a lot of existing stuff and change things in one place while affecting all - the simple json format allows you to create parts/packages/etc from scripts very fast - the package footprint editor is great and has generation scripts for a ton of existing packages (SOIC, QFN, etc.) I heard it was planned to release a 1.0 on the next FOSDEM in january.
wrs 7y ago
I discovered Horizon just now from the LibrePCB site and will certainly give it a try. The part management looks so much more sensible than anything else.

panpanna 7y ago

I started using librepcb for some smaller projects last year after having some issues with kicad. My thoughts after manufacturing ~10 boards: * It's simple, but what is there works reliably. * Library management works really well. * There are some issues with grids and alignment * DRC was available in the ui but could not find any errors (have not tested 0.1.3 yet). * No auto place/route. Horrible default placement. * Minimal manufacturing support but what is there works I moved from kicad when my old designs started looking different/broken due to updated components (!!). How can kicad team allow this?

dbrgn 7y ago
Thanks for your feedback! Great to hear from people that are using LibrePCB :) I agree with most of these things. Note: I think there was no DRC available in the board editor before 0.1.3, only an ERC which reported things like unplaced components. In 0.1.3 you have an actual DRC that checks things like copper clearance, minimum drill diameter, etc. PS: If you have a nice project to share, feel free to post it at https://librepcb.discourse.group/t/projects-madewithlibrepcb/99 https://librepcb.discourse.group/t/projects-madewithlibrepcb... !
- panpanna 7y ago
  You are right. But IIRC unplaced components was the only thing the ERC could detect :(

lukego 7y ago

Thanks for posting this. I'm planning to start work on my first ever PCB tomorrow and I'll try learning this instead of KiCAD and see if I need to switch or not.

panpanna 7y ago
If you are completely new to PCB design and manufacturing I would recommend kicad instead. I like them both but kicad has excellent tutorials on all aspects of the process. See for example the Conceptual Electronics videos on YouTube.

ivoras 7y ago

Cute, but EasyEDA is where the hobbyists are at right now. They realised that to win hearts and minds, the winning combination is to have a PCB editor, a components shop, a PCB manufacturing service and a PCB SMD assembly service all integrated (up to a point) in a single product.

russh 7y ago
I've been using EasyEDA for the last two years and have started ordering some of my parts from as well. It's worked pretty well for me, just be sure you verify the pinouts and packages for any user generated parts.
dbrgn 7y ago
You're dismissing a free non-commercial open-source cross platform EDA software project by promoting a web-based closed source commercial EDA tool by saying "that's where hobbyists are" without even showing any evidence for that (and in a dismissive tone). I think you're on the wrong forum.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

awalton 7y ago

Great. Now let's work on standardizing a footprint description language for components so we don't have to create a new footprint library for every new tool on the planet. (And maybe even so manufacturers will just release their footprints using that format, so we don't have to struggle there either).

fizixer 7y ago

Engineering $/w industry in general is full of proprietary, fleecing, outdated, and $mug, bloatware and crapware. Any open-source effort is welcome. If it were up to me, I'd dedicate the rest of my life to developing open-source engineering s/w alternatives, so I could play a small part in thoroughly crushing the commercial land$cape of engineering $$$$ware.

dev-il 7y ago

Is it possible to import/convert KiCAD libraries? Library coverage of the gazillion of available components is something that takes a lot of work and time. Even KiCAD with its head start, and higher user count that comes with it, is still lacking a lot of components. So whatever one thinks of KiCAD's libraries or library management… it would still make a huge difference for the user to have an import function or conversion tools so as to not have to start pretty much from scratch as long as the library coverage is lacking.