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And network analysis enables them to spot the early stages of organizations forming, and their "trajectory", and potentially to intervene to ensure th

And network analysis enables them to spot the early stages of organizations forming, and their "trajectory", and potentially to intervene to ensure they don't gain traction and get to a critical stage where they are highly likely to go "mainstream". I did have links to a couple of papers describing this, but misplaced them, and google isn't forthcoming...

TeMPOraL 7y ago
It's true, but I wonder if the way employees organize themselves will transform in such a way to make graph analysis less useful - similarly to how recent protests seem to work. From what I've read about Occupy protests, the Yellow Vests, and now Hong Kong protesters, they're all spontaneous and decentralized. Instead of an individual or a small group of leaders energizing the movement, there's something of a shared idea (a meme, if you like) flowing through the network, and once it crosses a threshold, you suddenly have thousands of people protesting. (This immediately suggests a strategy to combat such organization: instead of trying to find out who the leaders are - which will fail, because there are none - one should focus on misinformation to create enough doubt and noise that the threshold for spontaneous organization isn't crossed.)
- jacknews 7y ago
  Indeed, and it seem to me these countermeasures are exactly the method that's being employed by the likes of Putin and Trump. In google's case, I think they're just analyzing employee emails etc.
  - sodosopa 7y ago
    > In google's case, I think they're just analyzing employee emails etc. That’s why it’s ill advised to use company email for personal communication. Do it over telegram on your personal devices.
- CM30 7y ago
  Yeah, I think this is definitely the way future labour movements will go. That said, the decentralised setup has its own issues too. In addition to the misinformatioon aspect you point out, it makes it very difficult to control the 'reputation' of a protest or movement, since any Tom, Dick and Harry can claim to be associated with it and do whatever they want. This makes such an organisation easy to co-opt, or to misrepresent to the media.
- mc32 7y ago
  Have the yellow vests achieved anything? Not that that protests have to achieve major results. Sometimes the main thing is to get exposure so that powers that be realize there is foment that needs addressing (in a positive way, not in a crackdown way).
  - sojmq 7y ago
    Democracy is a sham, something to keep the masses in check. In this day and age you won't get shit just by protesting.
  - coldtea 7y ago
    >Have the yellow vests achieved anything? Yes. Quite a lot. The leadership went from not acknowledging their protests, talking down on them and promising to go on with all the reforms, to want to talk, and taking down certain parts of the laws.
- pjc50 7y ago
  This is quite noticeable among the modern far right; there have been a number of mass shooters who cite the same arguments and articles in their manifestoes, but there isn't any kind of conventional authority linking them. No command-and-control relationship or terrorist cell. Sometimes called "stochastic terrorism".
hos234 7y ago
This works the other way too. Corporate power resides in hubs and connectors that can be identified and disconnected to weaken the entire hierarchy. Lot of movements succeed because the hubs and connectors shift loyalty. Niall Ferguson has written a good book [The Square and the Tower] analyzing Historical Events from a network theoretic perspective rather than the usual historical perspective of studying just the top most person(node) in the hierarchy. It has a ton of examples of how all powerful hierarchies devolve.

TeMPOraL 7y ago

It's true, but I wonder if the way employees organize themselves will transform in such a way to make graph analysis less useful - similarly to how recent protests seem to work. From what I've read about Occupy protests, the Yellow Vests, and now Hong Kong protesters, they're all spontaneous and decentralized. Instead of an individual or a small group of leaders energizing the movement, there's something of a shared idea (a meme, if you like) flowing through the network, and once it crosses a threshold, you suddenly have thousands of people protesting. (This immediately suggests a strategy to combat such organization: instead of trying to find out who the leaders are - which will fail, because there are none - one should focus on misinformation to create enough doubt and noise that the threshold for spontaneous organization isn't crossed.)

jacknews 7y ago
Indeed, and it seem to me these countermeasures are exactly the method that's being employed by the likes of Putin and Trump. In google's case, I think they're just analyzing employee emails etc.
- sodosopa 7y ago
  > In google's case, I think they're just analyzing employee emails etc. That’s why it’s ill advised to use company email for personal communication. Do it over telegram on your personal devices.
CM30 7y ago
Yeah, I think this is definitely the way future labour movements will go. That said, the decentralised setup has its own issues too. In addition to the misinformatioon aspect you point out, it makes it very difficult to control the 'reputation' of a protest or movement, since any Tom, Dick and Harry can claim to be associated with it and do whatever they want. This makes such an organisation easy to co-opt, or to misrepresent to the media.
mc32 7y ago
Have the yellow vests achieved anything? Not that that protests have to achieve major results. Sometimes the main thing is to get exposure so that powers that be realize there is foment that needs addressing (in a positive way, not in a crackdown way).
- sojmq 7y ago
  Democracy is a sham, something to keep the masses in check. In this day and age you won't get shit just by protesting.
- coldtea 7y ago
  >Have the yellow vests achieved anything? Yes. Quite a lot. The leadership went from not acknowledging their protests, talking down on them and promising to go on with all the reforms, to want to talk, and taking down certain parts of the laws.
pjc50 7y ago
This is quite noticeable among the modern far right; there have been a number of mass shooters who cite the same arguments and articles in their manifestoes, but there isn't any kind of conventional authority linking them. No command-and-control relationship or terrorist cell. Sometimes called "stochastic terrorism".

hos234 7y ago

This works the other way too. Corporate power resides in hubs and connectors that can be identified and disconnected to weaken the entire hierarchy. Lot of movements succeed because the hubs and connectors shift loyalty. Niall Ferguson has written a good book [The Square and the Tower] analyzing Historical Events from a network theoretic perspective rather than the usual historical perspective of studying just the top most person(node) in the hierarchy. It has a ton of examples of how all powerful hierarchies devolve.