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Agree with you on most points. However on some points I'm not as convinced. Take the DOM abstraction, it works and is implemented by several SPA frameworks. Yo

Agree with you on most points. However on some points I'm not as convinced. Take the DOM abstraction, it works and is implemented by several SPA frameworks. You can design good looking, "desktop class" applications pretty fast. But problem arises quickly when your graphic designers send you those PSD mockups, full of great looking artwork waiting to come to life. With a normal DOM approach you've always been able to solve this. With hacking some HTML, tuning CSS and a lot of swearing you pull through. But with SPA frameworks that favor "components" over low-level, raw DOM elements things usually aren't as straightforward. Very often you need to start picking apart the provided "ready-made components" to get any work done. Ends up being very contra-productive and usually takes way longer to do. It has happened to me numerous times before with both GWT and Adobe Flex. Nice and shiny, given you don't try changing the layouts too much. Surely, I'd be one happy camper if this wasn't the case, web development need to move forward. And I hope the goals proclaimed by both Cappuccino and Sproutcore will work in practice some day. Regarding your other point about routing, departing from the route paradigm will be only be true if what your designing is not a document-centric application. In my world, an SPA can be either document-centric or desktop-like (containing a lot of UI state, as you mention). Think the answer to that is the boring "it depends". Worth mentioning, many of these issues are stuff we've been trying to resolve with the Planet Framework (http://www.planetframework.com http://www.planetframework.com), essentially bridging the gap between client and server.

hbrundage 16y ago
Great points. The design issue is a big one, and I think the main reason is that PSDs can be translated to HTML and CSS easily, but extracting a theme for a set of widgets is much harder. The widgets give you rich interaction and an easy way to set up complex layouts, but as you said can be very rigid and not allow easy modification of their behaviour. And I agree, I end up longing for the simple world of HTML and CSS where I know exactly how to change something instead of fighting the framework. I think thats something that will be remedied if a framework like Planet or my hypothetical one reaches ubiquity however. If developers learn the ways the framework works, just like how they learned the ways HTML, CSS, or Rails works, they'll be ok with extending the widgets to do what they want. Another good point about routing, and this I'm admittedly fuzzy on. Above mechanical_fish mentioned some serious SEO issues that arise from moving away from the standard paradigms, so I'm not quite sure how it should be solved. All in all, Planet looks neat, thanks for sharing!

hbrundage 16y ago

Great points. The design issue is a big one, and I think the main reason is that PSDs can be translated to HTML and CSS easily, but extracting a theme for a set of widgets is much harder. The widgets give you rich interaction and an easy way to set up complex layouts, but as you said can be very rigid and not allow easy modification of their behaviour. And I agree, I end up longing for the simple world of HTML and CSS where I know exactly how to change something instead of fighting the framework. I think thats something that will be remedied if a framework like Planet or my hypothetical one reaches ubiquity however. If developers learn the ways the framework works, just like how they learned the ways HTML, CSS, or Rails works, they'll be ok with extending the widgets to do what they want. Another good point about routing, and this I'm admittedly fuzzy on. Above mechanical_fish mentioned some serious SEO issues that arise from moving away from the standard paradigms, so I'm not quite sure how it should be solved. All in all, Planet looks neat, thanks for sharing!