4 ms·

"You can tell it's not property because the one thing that's guaranteed to result in losing a domain is failing to pay the fees." Don't pay your property taxes

"You can tell it's not property because the one thing that's guaranteed to result in losing a domain is failing to pay the fees." Don't pay your property taxes and you lose your property. Courts have argued that domains are property countless times, and they are treated absolutely as such. They are in the sense of contract law, with rights and grants, but obviously are a virtual good, of sorts. https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=016ee90b-496e-4a68-858a-956181932060 https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=016ee90b-496e... "The idea that first registration entitles someone to (a) waste a finite resource forever and (b) sell it at arbitrary prices later was fought out in the early 00s, and the real WIPO trademark system won." I specifically excluded trademark infringement, so why are you arguing that case? But yes, someone can "waste a finite resource forever" (by paying the same fee that a "useful" use of it would). Those are the rules of the game.

Silhouette 7y ago
Those are the rules of the game. That may be true according to the current authorities running the show, but clearly those rules are far beyond their useful lifetime now. For practical purposes, domains often function as a primary form of identification, for websites, email and other functions. Both the domain registrant and anyone trying to reach them have a reasonable expectation that the identity in question will not silently and suddenly be changed, a huge amount of everyday activity now depends on that expectation, and the consequences of violating it can be severe. We are well past the point where such critical infrastructure should not be in the hands of private businesses or individuals without sufficient regulation to safeguard the common good.
marcus_holmes 7y ago
> Those are the rules of the game. I don't think anyone disagrees that those are the rules we have. I think everyone who actually creates websites thinks those rules are not working as intended and should be changed. I refuse to believe that having speculators pay for thousands and thousands of empty domains is "working as intended".
- rhizome 7y ago
  There's no shortage of possible company and product names without a failure of imagination.
  - marcus_holmes 7y ago
    well, yeah, I get that. I spent 3 months trying to come up with something decent for the last one, and it did drive a lot of imaginative thinking about the brand, which was actually useful. I'm more thinking of the waste and expense. Clogging up infrastructure with utterly useless "holding pages". People spending vast amounts in registration fees in the hope of getting that big win. And that big win being at the expense of a company that genuinely needs the name but is forced to spend massively more than it needs to in order to get it. If this was what was intended, then whoever designed it was evil.
unishark 7y ago
Also a corporation is a person because judges have ruled that too. I certainly agree that opinions can differ whether various things (e.g. intellectual property) should be called property or not. But personally I don't like the dilution of the concept. "Ownership" of a URL is more like a contractual right. As for your home/land, if you don't pay property taxes the govt may begin a legal proceeding to seize it which must satisfy the usual checks and balances when the govt wants to violate your rights. Then they probably auction it off and the balance minus your back taxes goes to you. The point is you have real rights. Meanwhile your domain may be worth a million bucks at auction but you aren't getting squat because you forgot to pay the $12 fee, or violated some other detail in the contract.
perl4ever 7y ago
With physical property, we have adverse possession...

Silhouette 7y ago

Those are the rules of the game. That may be true according to the current authorities running the show, but clearly those rules are far beyond their useful lifetime now. For practical purposes, domains often function as a primary form of identification, for websites, email and other functions. Both the domain registrant and anyone trying to reach them have a reasonable expectation that the identity in question will not silently and suddenly be changed, a huge amount of everyday activity now depends on that expectation, and the consequences of violating it can be severe. We are well past the point where such critical infrastructure should not be in the hands of private businesses or individuals without sufficient regulation to safeguard the common good.

marcus_holmes 7y ago

> Those are the rules of the game. I don't think anyone disagrees that those are the rules we have. I think everyone who actually creates websites thinks those rules are not working as intended and should be changed. I refuse to believe that having speculators pay for thousands and thousands of empty domains is "working as intended".

rhizome 7y ago
There's no shortage of possible company and product names without a failure of imagination.
- marcus_holmes 7y ago
  well, yeah, I get that. I spent 3 months trying to come up with something decent for the last one, and it did drive a lot of imaginative thinking about the brand, which was actually useful. I'm more thinking of the waste and expense. Clogging up infrastructure with utterly useless "holding pages". People spending vast amounts in registration fees in the hope of getting that big win. And that big win being at the expense of a company that genuinely needs the name but is forced to spend massively more than it needs to in order to get it. If this was what was intended, then whoever designed it was evil.

unishark 7y ago

Also a corporation is a person because judges have ruled that too. I certainly agree that opinions can differ whether various things (e.g. intellectual property) should be called property or not. But personally I don't like the dilution of the concept. "Ownership" of a URL is more like a contractual right. As for your home/land, if you don't pay property taxes the govt may begin a legal proceeding to seize it which must satisfy the usual checks and balances when the govt wants to violate your rights. Then they probably auction it off and the balance minus your back taxes goes to you. The point is you have real rights. Meanwhile your domain may be worth a million bucks at auction but you aren't getting squat because you forgot to pay the $12 fee, or violated some other detail in the contract.

perl4ever 7y ago

With physical property, we have adverse possession...