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It sounds like they'll be keeping a sizable amount of staff in SF still. SF has a gross receipts tax on certain companies with HQ's in the city. As such auditor

It sounds like they'll be keeping a sizable amount of staff in SF still. SF has a gross receipts tax on certain companies with HQ's in the city. As such auditors will want to ensure this isn't just a tax avoidance gimmick. By pairing this move with an acquisition Charles Schwab has a stronger defense against such an accusation.

blackflame 7y ago
When will the people of SF learn you cannot tax yourself to prosperity
- godzillabrennus 7y ago
  When they move to Texas.
  - cjsplat 7y ago
    Where they will learn that Texas government pays for itself with oil and gas extraction taxes, which don't exist in California.
    - _-david-_ 7y ago
      The Bay Area pays for itself with the tech industry.
      - blackflame 7y ago
        No, the Bay Area rides on the coattails of tech. Severs can be anywhere and the second they decide Nevada (Cough Oracle) is cheaper, good by to all the money financing the impractical public policy. Humans are naturally selfish and greedy. That is fundamentally incompatible with any socialization of sufficient size
    - scurvy 7y ago
      Texas and the oil industry are one and the same, fully intertwined. God help the poor soul that owns land where a private oil company wants to build a pipeline or plant. Said land will be instantly seized by the company under eminent domain laws and the owner will get a pittance in return. If you're cool with that, then Texas is a great place for you to live. While this article is about Louisiana, the same laws (and practices) exist in Texas: https://www.nola.com/news/environment/article_75b4ff32-0d87-11ea-bd8f-1f9e52f23b31.html https://www.nola.com/news/environment/article_75b4ff32-0d87-...
      - Keverw 7y ago
        Yeah. Sadly you never really own your house. Even after you payoff the mortgage, which many won't because they always refinance and consolidate loans. But even if you do end up paying off the mortgage, then you have to pay rent to the government, which who knows when your neighborhood will be torn down to build a highway or high speed rail project. Then if you own the land, you don't even own the water, oil or whatever else might be under it. Remember abou a decade ago seeing something where a guy was disputing the county in Oregon over water rights, and they even illegally entered his property with no warrants or anythings.
- jdavis703 7y ago
  The City & County of SF has the seventh highest median income of all U.S. counties [0]. The GDP of the Bay Area ranks ahead of all but 16 countries [1]. If taxes are correlated with prosperity it'd seem as though SF had found a way to tax itself to prosperity. (Of course in reality economics and tax policy are far more complicated than this). 0: https://bea.gov/newsreleases/regional/lapi/lapi_newsrelease.htm https://bea.gov/newsreleases/regional/lapi/lapi_newsrelease.... 1: https://web.archive.org/web/20171208145551/https://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/regional/gdp_metro/2017/pdf/gdp_metro0917.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20171208145551/https://www.bea.g...
  - Nuzzerino 7y ago
    Your argument assumes the correlation, but you're arguing that the causation exists without even establishing the correlation.
  - blackflame 7y ago
    You can’t ride on the coattails of FANGO (Oracle) forever. For every person doing well you have just as many doing drugs in a tent on the streets below multimillion dollar 2 bedroom lofts
throwGuardian 7y ago
Tax avoidance "scam". Moving to Texas to reduce taxes, especially SF taxes which are basically useless to the payer [1], [2] is a "scam"? What's the legal framework preventing moves out of SF? Is it indentured slavery to the city council if you ever open an office in SF? [1]: https://www.newsweek.com/san-francisco-district-attorney-public-urination-prostitution-not-prosecute-1471475 https://www.newsweek.com/san-francisco-district-attorney-pub... [2]: https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamandrzejewski/2019/04/15/mapping-san-franciscos-human-waste-challenge-132562-case-reports-since-2008/#1abf7a985ea5 https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamandrzejewski/2019/04/15/map...
- jdavis703 7y ago
  The problem is perception. If a company seems to only move their headquarters in name only (IOW most of the staff still stays in SF), then that seems sketchy. If they make a clean separation and shutdown their SF presence, that doesn't appear as dodgy. And these companies are not just moving to Texas. I live in Oakland, CA and many of these companies are relocating here. I don't care if they leave SF, but if they're cheating on their taxes, that's just not right.
  - throwGuardian 7y ago
    How are they "cheating"? It appears like the city is the one cheating, refusing to enforce criminal law, which taxes are paying for. The city is cheating so much that they make some of the highest per capita tax revenue disappear without providing commensurate services Maybe you can mention the statute relevant to HQs? I'm not aware of any
    - jdavis703 7y ago
      This was one of the most contentious ballot initiatives for 2018. The text called headquarters "adminstrative offices" FWIW: https://ballotpedia.org/San_Francisco,_California,_Proposition_C,_Gross_Receipts_Tax_for_Homelessness_Services_(November_2018) https://ballotpedia.org/San_Francisco,_California,_Propositi... This measure was pretty well known. It was one of the most controversial local measures in 2018 (even gaining substantial regional coverage: I'm in Oakland not SF and heard a lot about it).

blackflame 7y ago

When will the people of SF learn you cannot tax yourself to prosperity

godzillabrennus 7y ago
When they move to Texas.
- cjsplat 7y ago
  Where they will learn that Texas government pays for itself with oil and gas extraction taxes, which don't exist in California.
  - _-david-_ 7y ago
    The Bay Area pays for itself with the tech industry.
    - blackflame 7y ago
      No, the Bay Area rides on the coattails of tech. Severs can be anywhere and the second they decide Nevada (Cough Oracle) is cheaper, good by to all the money financing the impractical public policy. Humans are naturally selfish and greedy. That is fundamentally incompatible with any socialization of sufficient size
  - scurvy 7y ago
    Texas and the oil industry are one and the same, fully intertwined. God help the poor soul that owns land where a private oil company wants to build a pipeline or plant. Said land will be instantly seized by the company under eminent domain laws and the owner will get a pittance in return. If you're cool with that, then Texas is a great place for you to live. While this article is about Louisiana, the same laws (and practices) exist in Texas: https://www.nola.com/news/environment/article_75b4ff32-0d87-11ea-bd8f-1f9e52f23b31.html https://www.nola.com/news/environment/article_75b4ff32-0d87-...
    - Keverw 7y ago
      Yeah. Sadly you never really own your house. Even after you payoff the mortgage, which many won't because they always refinance and consolidate loans. But even if you do end up paying off the mortgage, then you have to pay rent to the government, which who knows when your neighborhood will be torn down to build a highway or high speed rail project. Then if you own the land, you don't even own the water, oil or whatever else might be under it. Remember abou a decade ago seeing something where a guy was disputing the county in Oregon over water rights, and they even illegally entered his property with no warrants or anythings.
jdavis703 7y ago
The City & County of SF has the seventh highest median income of all U.S. counties [0]. The GDP of the Bay Area ranks ahead of all but 16 countries [1]. If taxes are correlated with prosperity it'd seem as though SF had found a way to tax itself to prosperity. (Of course in reality economics and tax policy are far more complicated than this). 0: https://bea.gov/newsreleases/regional/lapi/lapi_newsrelease.htm https://bea.gov/newsreleases/regional/lapi/lapi_newsrelease.... 1: https://web.archive.org/web/20171208145551/https://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/regional/gdp_metro/2017/pdf/gdp_metro0917.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20171208145551/https://www.bea.g...
- Nuzzerino 7y ago
  Your argument assumes the correlation, but you're arguing that the causation exists without even establishing the correlation.
- blackflame 7y ago
  You can’t ride on the coattails of FANGO (Oracle) forever. For every person doing well you have just as many doing drugs in a tent on the streets below multimillion dollar 2 bedroom lofts

throwGuardian 7y ago

Tax avoidance "scam". Moving to Texas to reduce taxes, especially SF taxes which are basically useless to the payer [1], [2] is a "scam"? What's the legal framework preventing moves out of SF? Is it indentured slavery to the city council if you ever open an office in SF? [1]: https://www.newsweek.com/san-francisco-district-attorney-public-urination-prostitution-not-prosecute-1471475 https://www.newsweek.com/san-francisco-district-attorney-pub... [2]: https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamandrzejewski/2019/04/15/mapping-san-franciscos-human-waste-challenge-132562-case-reports-since-2008/#1abf7a985ea5 https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamandrzejewski/2019/04/15/map...

jdavis703 7y ago
The problem is perception. If a company seems to only move their headquarters in name only (IOW most of the staff still stays in SF), then that seems sketchy. If they make a clean separation and shutdown their SF presence, that doesn't appear as dodgy. And these companies are not just moving to Texas. I live in Oakland, CA and many of these companies are relocating here. I don't care if they leave SF, but if they're cheating on their taxes, that's just not right.
- throwGuardian 7y ago
  How are they "cheating"? It appears like the city is the one cheating, refusing to enforce criminal law, which taxes are paying for. The city is cheating so much that they make some of the highest per capita tax revenue disappear without providing commensurate services Maybe you can mention the statute relevant to HQs? I'm not aware of any
  - jdavis703 7y ago
    This was one of the most contentious ballot initiatives for 2018. The text called headquarters "adminstrative offices" FWIW: https://ballotpedia.org/San_Francisco,_California,_Proposition_C,_Gross_Receipts_Tax_for_Homelessness_Services_(November_2018) https://ballotpedia.org/San_Francisco,_California,_Propositi... This measure was pretty well known. It was one of the most controversial local measures in 2018 (even gaining substantial regional coverage: I'm in Oakland not SF and heard a lot about it).