3 ms·

So, I'm not an expert, and haven't read the paper linked to in the article yet, but I think this is an opioid that doesn't recruit beta-arrestin? If so, that's

So, I'm not an expert, and haven't read the paper linked to in the article yet, but I think this is an opioid that doesn't recruit beta-arrestin? If so, that's not really a new class of drug - it's still an opioid, albeit one with less side effects. It will still induce euphoria and have abuse potential; perhaps even more abuse potential, as the risk of dying from respiratory depression is much lower. It's also not the first opioid having this property - mitragynine and 7-OH-mitragynine the main opioid alkaloids in kratom) also don't recruit beta-arrestin.

taxidump 7y ago
Kratom is not an opioid. https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/kratom-fear-worthy-foliage-or-beneficial-botanical-2019080717466 https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/kratom-fear-worthy-folia...
- loeg 7y ago
  How isn't it? > Opioids are substances that act on opioid receptors[1] From your link[2]: > The two main chemicals, mitragynine and 7-hydroxymitragynine, have strong activity at the main opioid receptor, the “mu” receptor, which is the same one stimulated by heroin and oxycodone. It's not an opiate, which is just the subset of opioids derived from the opium poppy. But neither are many pharmaceutical opioids. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opioid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opioid [2]: https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/kratom-fear-worthy-foliage-or-beneficial-botanical-2019080717466 https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/kratom-fear-worthy-folia...
- GordonS 7y ago
  It binds to opioid receptors - it is an opioid. I realise it's convenient for some kratom supporters to claim otherwise, but I am also a kratom supporter and believe this kind of obvious misinformation harms, rather than furthers the cause.
  - GordonS 7y ago
    I can't edit my post, but to be clear, kratom itself obviously isn't an opioid, but it contains opioid alkaloids.
    - loeg 7y ago
      Yep. But the same is more or less true of many pharmaceutical opioid preparations — they may contain paracetamol, binder, or filler in addition to the active opioid compound (e.g., Vicodin). I think it's fair to call the broad category "opioids."
      - GordonS 7y ago
        Absolutely, my updated comment was merely a guard against expected pedantry :)
        loeg 7y ago
        Totally reasonable! It seems I was that kind of pedant anyway. I'm sorry. :-)
  - taxidump 7y ago
    I was mistaken and had opioid lumped in with opiate.
- heavyset_go 7y ago
  Alkaloids in kratom bind to mu-opioid receptors, build tolerance, and cessation after chronic use will induce withdrawals.
balfirevic 7y ago
> It will still induce euphoria and have abuse potential; perhaps even more abuse potential, as the risk of dying from respiratory depression is much lower. Are you defining "abuse" here as "having a good time while on drug"? If not, then how would a drug with lower risks of overdose (and possibly addiction, as the article hypothesizes) be more prone to abuse?
- GordonS 7y ago
  > Are you defining "abuse" here as "having a good time while on drug"? Yes, I wouldn't necessarily personally consider that "abuse", more "use"; but much of western society does (unless it's one of the few "acceptable" drugs: alcohol, nicotine, caffeine).
  - balfirevic 7y ago
    I would encourage you to not give in to this fallacious usage of word, even if many people use it that way. This view has arguably created more harm than the drugs themselves. Here is the definition from Wikipedia [0], which I think is much more appropriate (and I'm guessing you'd agree with it): "Substance abuse, also known as drug abuse, is use of a drug in amounts or by methods which are harmful to the individual or others." [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substance_abuse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substance_abuse
    - GordonS 7y ago
      Thanks, I do agree with this.
- heavyset_go 7y ago
  > Are you defining "abuse" here as "having a good time while on drug"? There's no reason to make this a moralizing statement. You can define abuse as "a good chunk of people will find that their lives are unmanageable after getting access to this substance"

taxidump 7y ago

Kratom is not an opioid. https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/kratom-fear-worthy-foliage-or-beneficial-botanical-2019080717466 https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/kratom-fear-worthy-folia...

loeg 7y ago
How isn't it? > Opioids are substances that act on opioid receptors[1] From your link[2]: > The two main chemicals, mitragynine and 7-hydroxymitragynine, have strong activity at the main opioid receptor, the “mu” receptor, which is the same one stimulated by heroin and oxycodone. It's not an opiate, which is just the subset of opioids derived from the opium poppy. But neither are many pharmaceutical opioids. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opioid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opioid [2]: https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/kratom-fear-worthy-foliage-or-beneficial-botanical-2019080717466 https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/kratom-fear-worthy-folia...
GordonS 7y ago
It binds to opioid receptors - it is an opioid. I realise it's convenient for some kratom supporters to claim otherwise, but I am also a kratom supporter and believe this kind of obvious misinformation harms, rather than furthers the cause.
- GordonS 7y ago
  I can't edit my post, but to be clear, kratom itself obviously isn't an opioid, but it contains opioid alkaloids.
  - loeg 7y ago
    Yep. But the same is more or less true of many pharmaceutical opioid preparations — they may contain paracetamol, binder, or filler in addition to the active opioid compound (e.g., Vicodin). I think it's fair to call the broad category "opioids."
    - GordonS 7y ago
      Absolutely, my updated comment was merely a guard against expected pedantry :)
      - loeg 7y ago
        Totally reasonable! It seems I was that kind of pedant anyway. I'm sorry. :-)
- taxidump 7y ago
  I was mistaken and had opioid lumped in with opiate.
heavyset_go 7y ago
Alkaloids in kratom bind to mu-opioid receptors, build tolerance, and cessation after chronic use will induce withdrawals.

balfirevic 7y ago

> It will still induce euphoria and have abuse potential; perhaps even more abuse potential, as the risk of dying from respiratory depression is much lower. Are you defining "abuse" here as "having a good time while on drug"? If not, then how would a drug with lower risks of overdose (and possibly addiction, as the article hypothesizes) be more prone to abuse?

GordonS 7y ago
> Are you defining "abuse" here as "having a good time while on drug"? Yes, I wouldn't necessarily personally consider that "abuse", more "use"; but much of western society does (unless it's one of the few "acceptable" drugs: alcohol, nicotine, caffeine).
- balfirevic 7y ago
  I would encourage you to not give in to this fallacious usage of word, even if many people use it that way. This view has arguably created more harm than the drugs themselves. Here is the definition from Wikipedia [0], which I think is much more appropriate (and I'm guessing you'd agree with it): "Substance abuse, also known as drug abuse, is use of a drug in amounts or by methods which are harmful to the individual or others." [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substance_abuse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substance_abuse
  - GordonS 7y ago
    Thanks, I do agree with this.
heavyset_go 7y ago
> Are you defining "abuse" here as "having a good time while on drug"? There's no reason to make this a moralizing statement. You can define abuse as "a good chunk of people will find that their lives are unmanageable after getting access to this substance"