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I just moved to the Bay Area and I have no good opinions about living here. It’s a 3 trillion dollar neighborhood that has broken infrastructure, an abysmal hou

I just moved to the Bay Area and I have no good opinions about living here. It’s a 3 trillion dollar neighborhood that has broken infrastructure, an abysmal housing situation, crime through the roof, homeless people everywhere, traffic, outrageous costs and just generally an awful place to live. I don’t know about the business side, but from an employee standpoint, fuck the Bay Area. Oh, and my car got broken into twice, and someone asshat stole my license plates.

scurvy 7y ago
Crime through the roof? People who live in actual high crime areas would like a word with you. It sounds like you've experienced more than your fair share of crime since moving to the BA, but calling it high crime is beyond a stretch.
- driverdan 7y ago
  Property crime is high in the bay.
  - scurvy 7y ago
    Yes, SF does rank #1 nationally for property crimes. It stinks, but most people value life more than property. Violent crime in the Bay Area is still much lower than national averages, and that's what most people concentrate on. Also, San Francisco isn't the entire Bay Area.
    - FireBeyond 7y ago
      You go from saying "people who live in actual high crime areas would like a word with you" to acknowledging that SF has the highest property crime rates in the country. And then wave it all away as, I guess, it's only really non-violent crime. Odd logic.
      - scurvy 7y ago
        I also said, that SF isn't the entire Bay Area. If you gave weightings to crime categories (we all do this internally), property crime would probably be the lowest weighted next to white collar crime. Violent crime would get exponentially higher weightings. It's one thing to have $200 worth of stuff stolen in a car break-in. It's another to be violently mugged for $200 in cash on your person. I've lived in bad areas and the Bay isn't one of them. I'll trade property crime for knowing my family isn't likely to end up the victim of a horrendous violent crime. Manhattan also has high property crime rates but low violent crime. Even has high real estate costs, but you don't see anyone knocking it as a hell hole. There are people with some weird agenda/vendetta against the Bay Area, and they're obviously pouncing here.
        pandaman 7y ago
        It is not a zero sum situation - you don't get high violent crime due to low property crime and vice versa. It's entirely possible to live in an area with low property and low violent crime. Besides, doing a quick search shows [e.g. 1] that the NYC has both violent and property crimes rates much lower than SF, this could explain why people are not saying it's a hell hole. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_crime_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_b...
        scurvy 7y ago
        Those stats are based on city and not MSA. If it were MSA, the Bay Area would be equivalent to New York. The city of New York includes all boroughs, not just Manhattan. If you compared Manhattan to SF, I bet they would be similar. Also, I'm talking about the entire Bay Area and you keep zeroing in on SF.
        pandaman 7y ago
        I would love to compare just Manhattan but I cannot find the statistics. Seeing that you assert that - care to show the numbers to support your assertion? Also, seeing that the Bay Area includes Oakland and Palo Alto, I don't think comparing the entire Bay Area to NYC will give you results you have imagined.
- Hydraulix989 7y ago
  Even though there is not much organized crime and no longer the same level of gang activity as 10 years ago, as a matter of policy, SF tends to either not convict or give lighter sentences to your everyday crime like shoplifting and breaking car windows though. The consequence is that there is a lot of broken glass on the street. I'm originally from a much rougher part of the US than SF. Walking on the street here at night is still a relative dream (but not at all like in Asia). (Also, another uniquely SF policy: blatant abuse of opioids, etc. here are not considered to be criminal.)
  - scurvy 7y ago
    I'm from New Orleans and will take all of the broken glass and addicts over NOLA's violent crime. It's not even a close comparison.
    - selimthegrim 7y ago
      You live in the Bay Area now? I've never had any problems in NOLA short of a close call to a home invasion at a acquaintance's five years ago (who was involved in things he shouldn't have been)
      - scurvy 7y ago
        Been in the Bay since 2000. I grew up in NOLA through the worst years. Can't unsee what I've seen there. NOLA is bad because crime is everywhere. There are no good areas and bad areas -- it's everywhere. Even people in old Metairie need to deal with home invasions. Uptown? Oooooo-lawd! Who was the rich uptown couple that had a home invasion where they tied up the husband and repeatedly raped the wife over several days as they went to the ATM over a long weekend? I honestly can't remember their names because that stuff happens so often (and said family was even friends with my dad).
        selimthegrim 7y ago
        Yes, it was Uptown. (I don’t live Uptown) I don’t recall the details of the incident you state. Things have certainly changed since 2000.
- deleted 7y ago
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Mountain_Skies 7y ago
If the exodus goes from a trickle to a torrent, the city budget propped up by property taxes is going to crater. Whatever problems there are now with homelessness, imagine what it will be like when social services can no longer be provided for them. San Francisco is a ship that lost power to its engines while coasting towards an iceberg.
- adrr 7y ago
  If housing costs are a problem. They have too many people moving there and not leaving. All major cities in California has the same issue that people keep moving here and driving up housing cost and causing more traffic.
- toast0 7y ago
  It would need to be a real big exodus for property tax revenues to go down. Prop 13 limits and associated low turn property turnover means a large amount of the tax roll is assessed under current value. During the 2008 real estate crash, few of the California counties saw a decrease in property tax revenues.
  - Mountain_Skies 7y ago
    Wouldn't property turnover be high if there is an exodus?
    - toast0 7y ago
      Probably yes, however, because so many properties are assessed so far under their current market value, due to historic low turnover, the high turnover of an exodus would tend to raise the overall assessed value, unless the price drop was very extreme
- scurvy 7y ago
  You must not live in the Bay Area and are merely reaching for talking points. Everyone in CA knows that property tax money goes straight to the state and is divvied up there. It's collected locally, then sent straight to the state. CA gets first crack at spending it, then it goes down to the local level. The social services are paid for mostly by bond measures, which are immune to real estate prices. Other things are paid for with consumption based taxes (mostly sales).
unlinked_dll 7y ago
I mean the peninsula is mostly a dump but even historically “bad” neighborhoods like Richmond and Oakland are miles away from where they were 10-20 years ago. The East Bay and Silicon Valley proper are downright decent places to live.
- sjg007 7y ago
  It's not a dump... it's more like one giant suburb with the component cities redeveloping their cores.
deleted 7y ago
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demosthenes14 7y ago
Sometimes I wonder if there’s a funded campaign against the Bay Area online. Where do you live, and where did you come from? I just moved to SF and yes it has homeless people, traffic and is extremely expensive, but these are things that every other big city I’ve lived in has. The costs and homelessness are worse than Seattle or NYC but not to the point that it’s a reduction in my quality of life. To say you have “no good opinions” is so extreme. The area is beautiful, has a rich history, amazing culture, food and art, and if you work in technology has the best availability of jobs in the world.
- slavapestov 7y ago
  > Sometimes I wonder if there’s a funded campaign against the Bay Area online. By whom and to what end? Has it occurred to you that some people just don't like living there? Not everyone you disagree with is a paid shill.
  - sjg007 7y ago
    Obviously it's a conspiracy by Californians to keep others from considering to move there!
  - demosthenes14 7y ago
    It’s not just a matter of disagreement— take a look on here, Reddit and Twitter and you’ll find a swarm of people making it seem like the Bay Area is a dystopian hellhole. I was legitimately concerned about my move before I got here.
    - CydeWeys 7y ago
      I agree that there's lots of people online who make exaggerated negative claims about San Francisco, and my best guess as to why is that it's part of the coastal/inland, liberal/conservative cultural divide/war. It's easier to put others down than to fix your own mess, and frankly, California's economy and social services are the envy of almost every other state.
    - aprdm 7y ago
BooneJS 7y ago
I left the Bay Area a few months ago. We didn’t even last 2 years. Structure your rent accordingly. :)
hkmurakami 7y ago
Sounds like you live in SF rather than other areas of the bay. The bay has micro markets like its micro climates. Also, the bay has good jobs, so there's that. I mean that's probably why you moved here?
driverdan 7y ago
Why did you move there? Tech exists outside the bay.
drivebycomment 7y ago
Then why are you here? For your own sake, please leave if you are so unhappy.
- Redoubts 7y ago
  I know I'm trying.
- 0xffff2 7y ago
  I would love to leave if I could take my job with me.
- mertd 7y ago
  This response is the most callous and gutting. People are genuinely raising concerns about things that are objectively broken here like housing, transit, income disparity and drug use, and right on cue someone comes along and says "then leave". Isn't this allegedly most inclusive and welcoming region in the country?

scurvy 7y ago

Crime through the roof? People who live in actual high crime areas would like a word with you. It sounds like you've experienced more than your fair share of crime since moving to the BA, but calling it high crime is beyond a stretch.

driverdan 7y ago
Property crime is high in the bay.
- scurvy 7y ago
  Yes, SF does rank #1 nationally for property crimes. It stinks, but most people value life more than property. Violent crime in the Bay Area is still much lower than national averages, and that's what most people concentrate on. Also, San Francisco isn't the entire Bay Area.
  - FireBeyond 7y ago
    You go from saying "people who live in actual high crime areas would like a word with you" to acknowledging that SF has the highest property crime rates in the country. And then wave it all away as, I guess, it's only really non-violent crime. Odd logic.
    - scurvy 7y ago
      I also said, that SF isn't the entire Bay Area. If you gave weightings to crime categories (we all do this internally), property crime would probably be the lowest weighted next to white collar crime. Violent crime would get exponentially higher weightings. It's one thing to have $200 worth of stuff stolen in a car break-in. It's another to be violently mugged for $200 in cash on your person. I've lived in bad areas and the Bay isn't one of them. I'll trade property crime for knowing my family isn't likely to end up the victim of a horrendous violent crime. Manhattan also has high property crime rates but low violent crime. Even has high real estate costs, but you don't see anyone knocking it as a hell hole. There are people with some weird agenda/vendetta against the Bay Area, and they're obviously pouncing here.
      - pandaman 7y ago
        It is not a zero sum situation - you don't get high violent crime due to low property crime and vice versa. It's entirely possible to live in an area with low property and low violent crime. Besides, doing a quick search shows [e.g. 1] that the NYC has both violent and property crimes rates much lower than SF, this could explain why people are not saying it's a hell hole. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_crime_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_b...
        scurvy 7y ago
        Those stats are based on city and not MSA. If it were MSA, the Bay Area would be equivalent to New York. The city of New York includes all boroughs, not just Manhattan. If you compared Manhattan to SF, I bet they would be similar. Also, I'm talking about the entire Bay Area and you keep zeroing in on SF.
        pandaman 7y ago
        I would love to compare just Manhattan but I cannot find the statistics. Seeing that you assert that - care to show the numbers to support your assertion? Also, seeing that the Bay Area includes Oakland and Palo Alto, I don't think comparing the entire Bay Area to NYC will give you results you have imagined.
Hydraulix989 7y ago
Even though there is not much organized crime and no longer the same level of gang activity as 10 years ago, as a matter of policy, SF tends to either not convict or give lighter sentences to your everyday crime like shoplifting and breaking car windows though. The consequence is that there is a lot of broken glass on the street. I'm originally from a much rougher part of the US than SF. Walking on the street here at night is still a relative dream (but not at all like in Asia). (Also, another uniquely SF policy: blatant abuse of opioids, etc. here are not considered to be criminal.)
- scurvy 7y ago
  I'm from New Orleans and will take all of the broken glass and addicts over NOLA's violent crime. It's not even a close comparison.
  - selimthegrim 7y ago
    You live in the Bay Area now? I've never had any problems in NOLA short of a close call to a home invasion at a acquaintance's five years ago (who was involved in things he shouldn't have been)
    - scurvy 7y ago
      Been in the Bay since 2000. I grew up in NOLA through the worst years. Can't unsee what I've seen there. NOLA is bad because crime is everywhere. There are no good areas and bad areas -- it's everywhere. Even people in old Metairie need to deal with home invasions. Uptown? Oooooo-lawd! Who was the rich uptown couple that had a home invasion where they tied up the husband and repeatedly raped the wife over several days as they went to the ATM over a long weekend? I honestly can't remember their names because that stuff happens so often (and said family was even friends with my dad).
      - selimthegrim 7y ago
        Yes, it was Uptown. (I don’t live Uptown) I don’t recall the details of the incident you state. Things have certainly changed since 2000.
deleted 7y ago
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Mountain_Skies 7y ago

If the exodus goes from a trickle to a torrent, the city budget propped up by property taxes is going to crater. Whatever problems there are now with homelessness, imagine what it will be like when social services can no longer be provided for them. San Francisco is a ship that lost power to its engines while coasting towards an iceberg.

adrr 7y ago
If housing costs are a problem. They have too many people moving there and not leaving. All major cities in California has the same issue that people keep moving here and driving up housing cost and causing more traffic.
toast0 7y ago
It would need to be a real big exodus for property tax revenues to go down. Prop 13 limits and associated low turn property turnover means a large amount of the tax roll is assessed under current value. During the 2008 real estate crash, few of the California counties saw a decrease in property tax revenues.
- Mountain_Skies 7y ago
  Wouldn't property turnover be high if there is an exodus?
  - toast0 7y ago
    Probably yes, however, because so many properties are assessed so far under their current market value, due to historic low turnover, the high turnover of an exodus would tend to raise the overall assessed value, unless the price drop was very extreme
scurvy 7y ago
You must not live in the Bay Area and are merely reaching for talking points. Everyone in CA knows that property tax money goes straight to the state and is divvied up there. It's collected locally, then sent straight to the state. CA gets first crack at spending it, then it goes down to the local level. The social services are paid for mostly by bond measures, which are immune to real estate prices. Other things are paid for with consumption based taxes (mostly sales).

unlinked_dll 7y ago

I mean the peninsula is mostly a dump but even historically “bad” neighborhoods like Richmond and Oakland are miles away from where they were 10-20 years ago. The East Bay and Silicon Valley proper are downright decent places to live.

sjg007 7y ago
It's not a dump... it's more like one giant suburb with the component cities redeveloping their cores.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

demosthenes14 7y ago

Sometimes I wonder if there’s a funded campaign against the Bay Area online. Where do you live, and where did you come from? I just moved to SF and yes it has homeless people, traffic and is extremely expensive, but these are things that every other big city I’ve lived in has. The costs and homelessness are worse than Seattle or NYC but not to the point that it’s a reduction in my quality of life. To say you have “no good opinions” is so extreme. The area is beautiful, has a rich history, amazing culture, food and art, and if you work in technology has the best availability of jobs in the world.

slavapestov 7y ago
> Sometimes I wonder if there’s a funded campaign against the Bay Area online. By whom and to what end? Has it occurred to you that some people just don't like living there? Not everyone you disagree with is a paid shill.
- sjg007 7y ago
  Obviously it's a conspiracy by Californians to keep others from considering to move there!
- demosthenes14 7y ago
  It’s not just a matter of disagreement— take a look on here, Reddit and Twitter and you’ll find a swarm of people making it seem like the Bay Area is a dystopian hellhole. I was legitimately concerned about my move before I got here.
  - CydeWeys 7y ago
    I agree that there's lots of people online who make exaggerated negative claims about San Francisco, and my best guess as to why is that it's part of the coastal/inland, liberal/conservative cultural divide/war. It's easier to put others down than to fix your own mess, and frankly, California's economy and social services are the envy of almost every other state.
  - aprdm 7y ago

BooneJS 7y ago

I left the Bay Area a few months ago. We didn’t even last 2 years. Structure your rent accordingly. :)

hkmurakami 7y ago

Sounds like you live in SF rather than other areas of the bay. The bay has micro markets like its micro climates. Also, the bay has good jobs, so there's that. I mean that's probably why you moved here?

driverdan 7y ago

Why did you move there? Tech exists outside the bay.

drivebycomment 7y ago

Then why are you here? For your own sake, please leave if you are so unhappy.

Redoubts 7y ago
I know I'm trying.
0xffff2 7y ago
I would love to leave if I could take my job with me.
mertd 7y ago
This response is the most callous and gutting. People are genuinely raising concerns about things that are objectively broken here like housing, transit, income disparity and drug use, and right on cue someone comes along and says "then leave". Isn't this allegedly most inclusive and welcoming region in the country?