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My issue with all of these discussions is that they invariably present ideas that are just too complicated, and our tax code is just too complicated as it is.

My issue with all of these discussions is that they invariably present ideas that are just too complicated, and our tax code is just too complicated as it is. Create a system that can be applied evenly, and fairly, from the top to the bottom and then I think you’ve got a great and novel idea.

crooked-v 7y ago
When it comes to taxes, "evenly" and "fairly" are not the same thing. That's the whole reason we have tax brackets in the first place.
- 3fe9a03ccd14ca5 7y ago
  Why is it impossible to be both even and fair?
  - crooked-v 7y ago
    Taking 30% of a yearly income of $14,000 has a much greater negative effect on standard of living than taking 30% of a yearly income of $14,000,000.
swebs 7y ago
The Fair Tax plan was a neat idea. Tax everyone at X percent, while giving everyone back Y dollars per month as a form of UBI. The values of X and Y are chosen so those below the poverty line gain more money than they are taxed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FairTax https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FairTax
- rklaehn 7y ago
  I was a huge fan of this concept. It has been invented independently by people on the right (Milton Friedman) and the left. But unfortunately that is not how politics works. Politics is selling a particular group an advantage over the majority in exchange for votes. That is true both for the left and the right, the only difference is which groups they target. And a fair tax is just too simple. Politicians wouldn't have anything to sell anymore...
  - 3fe9a03ccd14ca5 7y ago
    > And a fair tax is just too simple. Politicians wouldn't have anything to sell anymore. You’re right! Without the ability to carve out exceptions, why would a powerful lobby need to come with a proverbial suitcase a cash?
    - rklaehn 7y ago
      The sad thing that just the two parameters basic income and flat tax rate are flexible enough for a wide variety of policies. Want scandinavian style socialism: set the basic income very high and have a high flat tax rate of maybe 50%. Want a more individualist approach: set basic income to the bare necessities and set the flat tax rate to 25%. Want to borrow to fight against a recession, keynesian style: increase basic income without raising flat tax rate. Want to save for bad times: increase flat tax rate without raising basic income... I guess this kind of system can only emerge due to some drastic change or historical accident. E.g. the eastern european countries have a flat tax system because after the collapse of the soviet union there was no complex incumbent system in place. I would love to know if there is a way to get to such a system using the normal democratic process. But if it exists, I don't see it.
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
- jmpman 7y ago
  Although these tax systems likely poll well, all tax systems are just transfer functions. Any tax system which results in significantly reduced taxes for the >1% raises my suspicions. If you couples this system with an inheritance tax of 100% for greater than $10M, I’m interested.
hannasanarion 7y ago
"evenly" is not the same as "fairly". If you take 10% from someone making $1000/month, they can't pay their electric bills. If you take 10% from someone making 1,000,000/month, they have to wait a little longer to buy their third superyacht.
DiogenesKynikos 7y ago
Tax brackets are not what make doing taxes difficult. The tricky thing about doing taxes is figuring out what counts as taxable income, what can be deducted from income, what credits one qualifies for, and other details. That's why the idea that taxes could be made easier by getting rid of brackets never made any sense. That argument is just a cover for undoing the progressive nature of the tax system (as in, the more you make, the larger the percentage you pay in taxes).
- swebs 7y ago
  The parent comment never mentioned tax brackets. I think you're actually agreeing with each other.

crooked-v 7y ago

When it comes to taxes, "evenly" and "fairly" are not the same thing. That's the whole reason we have tax brackets in the first place.

3fe9a03ccd14ca5 7y ago
Why is it impossible to be both even and fair?
- crooked-v 7y ago
  Taking 30% of a yearly income of $14,000 has a much greater negative effect on standard of living than taking 30% of a yearly income of $14,000,000.

swebs 7y ago

The Fair Tax plan was a neat idea. Tax everyone at X percent, while giving everyone back Y dollars per month as a form of UBI. The values of X and Y are chosen so those below the poverty line gain more money than they are taxed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FairTax https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FairTax

rklaehn 7y ago
I was a huge fan of this concept. It has been invented independently by people on the right (Milton Friedman) and the left. But unfortunately that is not how politics works. Politics is selling a particular group an advantage over the majority in exchange for votes. That is true both for the left and the right, the only difference is which groups they target. And a fair tax is just too simple. Politicians wouldn't have anything to sell anymore...
- 3fe9a03ccd14ca5 7y ago
  > And a fair tax is just too simple. Politicians wouldn't have anything to sell anymore. You’re right! Without the ability to carve out exceptions, why would a powerful lobby need to come with a proverbial suitcase a cash?
  - rklaehn 7y ago
    The sad thing that just the two parameters basic income and flat tax rate are flexible enough for a wide variety of policies. Want scandinavian style socialism: set the basic income very high and have a high flat tax rate of maybe 50%. Want a more individualist approach: set basic income to the bare necessities and set the flat tax rate to 25%. Want to borrow to fight against a recession, keynesian style: increase basic income without raising flat tax rate. Want to save for bad times: increase flat tax rate without raising basic income... I guess this kind of system can only emerge due to some drastic change or historical accident. E.g. the eastern european countries have a flat tax system because after the collapse of the soviet union there was no complex incumbent system in place. I would love to know if there is a way to get to such a system using the normal democratic process. But if it exists, I don't see it.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
jmpman 7y ago
Although these tax systems likely poll well, all tax systems are just transfer functions. Any tax system which results in significantly reduced taxes for the >1% raises my suspicions. If you couples this system with an inheritance tax of 100% for greater than $10M, I’m interested.

hannasanarion 7y ago

"evenly" is not the same as "fairly". If you take 10% from someone making $1000/month, they can't pay their electric bills. If you take 10% from someone making 1,000,000/month, they have to wait a little longer to buy their third superyacht.

DiogenesKynikos 7y ago

Tax brackets are not what make doing taxes difficult. The tricky thing about doing taxes is figuring out what counts as taxable income, what can be deducted from income, what credits one qualifies for, and other details. That's why the idea that taxes could be made easier by getting rid of brackets never made any sense. That argument is just a cover for undoing the progressive nature of the tax system (as in, the more you make, the larger the percentage you pay in taxes).

swebs 7y ago
The parent comment never mentioned tax brackets. I think you're actually agreeing with each other.