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> I can guarantee data intensive businesses who make competent use of open source that I can reduce their infrastructure costs by 4x with ease I am interested

> I can guarantee data intensive businesses who make competent use of open source that I can reduce their infrastructure costs by 4x with ease I am interested in your perspective and experiences. > Oracle and SQL Server have architectures that are as obsolete as PostgreSQL, they don't compete on the basis of being modern, efficient designs but on the basis of having dramatically better operational tooling. What dramatically better tooling does SQL Server has? > PostgreSQL, Kafka, and Redis (I've used all three operationally) have several times the hardware requirements to deliver a workload in practice than is required with a state-of-the-art architecture. What should I think of when you talk about state-of-the-art architecture? And what would replace aforementioned tools? What should the open source offerings do to win you over?

wayneftw 7y ago
> What dramatically better tooling does SQL Server has? I don't know about Oracle but SQL Server Data Tools (SSDT) and SQL Server Management Studio (SSMS) are vastly better than anything I've seen for open source databases. SSMS is just a really good visual client with an excellent table/view designer, diagram builder and query builder with GUI management features that let you manage virtually every facet of your server and databases. SSDT lets you treat your SQL schema, database settings and deployments like code, with versioning. All of your table schemas, views, functions, procedures, settings, seed data, etc. are stored as text in your git repo. When you're creating, it has excellent intellisense/autocomplete. You can use it to diff your schema and data against a given SQL Server database to generate migration scripts. You can also do data comparisons between your seed data and your server and you can diff schemas and data between 2 different servers without even having created an SSDT schema. Another very useful feature is that you can reverse engineer a SQL Server database that was already created in order to start your SSDT project. It also has visual designers for all of the aforementioned things. It used to be a separate tool, but now it's part of the free Visual Studio community edition. Both tools are free, as are various editions of SQL Server. Also, SQL Server itself has had features for a long time that PG is just starting to get such as real Stored Procedures, ones that can return multiple heterogeneous result-sets, run transactions and do control of flow with SQL-like statements (IF/THEN, DO, WHILE, etc.) It also has table variables, which are like in-memory tables, that you can use as a faster type of temp table for certain sets of data. Since I moved off of Windows for my workstations, I've been running SQL Server in Docker on Linux for the past few months - it's rock solid.
- exceptione 7y ago
  Afaik, those things are available in DBeaver [0] and MySQL Workbench [1] as well. @jandrewrogers also mentioned a 4-fold performance increase by switching to proprietary solutions from pgsql. I am still wondering what those solutions might be... --- 0. https://dbeaver.io/ https://dbeaver.io/ 1. https://www.mysql.com/products/workbench/ https://www.mysql.com/products/workbench/
  - wayneftw 7y ago
    I’ve used both and I can assure you that both the products you mention fail to approach the utility and more importantly, the quality of either SSMS or SSDT. Have you tried the SQL Server based products at all?
    - exceptione 7y ago
      Not that much, so I might have to take a better look then. :)

wayneftw 7y ago

> What dramatically better tooling does SQL Server has? I don't know about Oracle but SQL Server Data Tools (SSDT) and SQL Server Management Studio (SSMS) are vastly better than anything I've seen for open source databases. SSMS is just a really good visual client with an excellent table/view designer, diagram builder and query builder with GUI management features that let you manage virtually every facet of your server and databases. SSDT lets you treat your SQL schema, database settings and deployments like code, with versioning. All of your table schemas, views, functions, procedures, settings, seed data, etc. are stored as text in your git repo. When you're creating, it has excellent intellisense/autocomplete. You can use it to diff your schema and data against a given SQL Server database to generate migration scripts. You can also do data comparisons between your seed data and your server and you can diff schemas and data between 2 different servers without even having created an SSDT schema. Another very useful feature is that you can reverse engineer a SQL Server database that was already created in order to start your SSDT project. It also has visual designers for all of the aforementioned things. It used to be a separate tool, but now it's part of the free Visual Studio community edition. Both tools are free, as are various editions of SQL Server. Also, SQL Server itself has had features for a long time that PG is just starting to get such as real Stored Procedures, ones that can return multiple heterogeneous result-sets, run transactions and do control of flow with SQL-like statements (IF/THEN, DO, WHILE, etc.) It also has table variables, which are like in-memory tables, that you can use as a faster type of temp table for certain sets of data. Since I moved off of Windows for my workstations, I've been running SQL Server in Docker on Linux for the past few months - it's rock solid.

exceptione 7y ago
Afaik, those things are available in DBeaver [0] and MySQL Workbench [1] as well. @jandrewrogers also mentioned a 4-fold performance increase by switching to proprietary solutions from pgsql. I am still wondering what those solutions might be... --- 0. https://dbeaver.io/ https://dbeaver.io/ 1. https://www.mysql.com/products/workbench/ https://www.mysql.com/products/workbench/
- wayneftw 7y ago
  I’ve used both and I can assure you that both the products you mention fail to approach the utility and more importantly, the quality of either SSMS or SSDT. Have you tried the SQL Server based products at all?
  - exceptione 7y ago
    Not that much, so I might have to take a better look then. :)