5 ms·

I remember seeing a documentary--too lazy to look it up now--but it was about the Inuit (or a portion of them) that let a guest sleep with the woman /women in t

I remember seeing a documentary--too lazy to look it up now--but it was about the Inuit (or a portion of them) that let a guest sleep with the woman /women in their igloo. At first look, this goes against Darwin, who wants to raise someone else's "bastard" but without it they'd be doomed. So the lesser of evils.

red75prime 7y ago
I've heard that too. And it seems that something like that took place [0]. Not "a guest", but "close friend" though. [0]: "American Anthropology, 1888-1920: Papers from the American Anthropologist" ISBN 0803280084 page 479
- idoubtit 7y ago
  I've first heard of this custom while reading Marco polo's "Le livre des merveilles du monde" (The Travels of Marco Polo). IIRC the editor's notes, the custom did exist in some places of the Himalaya mountains. > The guest may stay and enjoy the wife's society as long as he lists, whilst the husband has no shame in the matter, but indeed considers it an honour. And all the men of this province are made wittols of by their wives in this way. Source: https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Travels_of_Marco_Polo/Book_1/Chapter_41 https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Travels_of_Marco_Polo/Boo...
  - hcarvalhoalves 7y ago
    Western culture says it’s monogamous due to moral and law, but something between 1/4 to 1/2 of the men and up to 1/3 of the women “cheat”. So in terms of genetic diversity it’s the same, we just pretend it doesn’t happen while other cultures don’t see an issue.
    - barry-cotter 7y ago
      There are huge differences in extra pair paternity across cultures and social class. People are not the same everywhere. https://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(19)31305-3 https://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(19)... A Historical-Genetic Reconstruction of Human Extra-Pair Paternity Specifically, we observe that estimated EPP rates among married couples varied by more than an order of magnitude, from 0.4% to 5.9%, and peaked among families with a low socioeconomic background living in densely populated cities of the late 19th century. Our results support theoretical predictions that social context can strongly affect the outcomes of sexual conflict in human populations by modulating the incentives and opportunities for engaging in extra-pair relationships.
Iv 7y ago
Evolution focuses on populations, not individuals. A lot of things make more sense if you consider that.
- marton78 7y ago
  On the contrary. Evolution focuses on individuals.
  - iguy 7y ago
    Or lower, on selfish genes™️. Which can certainly imply doing things bad for the individual but good for their kin group. Although I don't know about this Inuit story.
    - hprotagonist 7y ago
      “selfish gene” is my very least favorite anthropomorphism.
  - dredmorbius 7y ago
    Darwin himself argued for group selection. He postulated that moral men might not do any better than immoral men but that tribes of moral men would certainly “have an immense advantage” over fractious bands of pirates." https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/whats-good-for-the-group/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/whats-good-for-th... Though the pendulum swings. The case isn't clear-cut, and the argument for group-level selection (or even symbiotic or more general multi-species co-evolution) is strong.
    - im3w1l 7y ago
      Group level selection is irrefutably a thing (Multicellular organisms are selected as a group. Eusocial insects are too). The only question is how important it is in various contexts, in some it may be negligible.
      - 7y ago
selimthegrim 7y ago
Similarly such stories circulate about the Hutterites in Canada. I hear you’d better be white looking though
throwawayhhakdl 7y ago
Monkeys and other animals that have strong social structures will do this for similar reasons.
Nasrudith 7y ago
Well it also depends on perceptions of relationships and monogamy. I don't know of their cultural ideal attitudes towards wives and agency (say she decides who she sleeps with period vs property to be shared spectrum) or actual for that matter but if it is a reciprocal norm it is likely a wash quantitatively. Not to mention survival concerns about having children to care for them in old age. It reminds me of one joke about ancient Norsemen not caring about blatant signs of infidelity like the children having different skin and hair color so long as their sons were strong.

red75prime 7y ago

I've heard that too. And it seems that something like that took place [0]. Not "a guest", but "close friend" though. [0]: "American Anthropology, 1888-1920: Papers from the American Anthropologist" ISBN 0803280084 page 479

idoubtit 7y ago
I've first heard of this custom while reading Marco polo's "Le livre des merveilles du monde" (The Travels of Marco Polo). IIRC the editor's notes, the custom did exist in some places of the Himalaya mountains. > The guest may stay and enjoy the wife's society as long as he lists, whilst the husband has no shame in the matter, but indeed considers it an honour. And all the men of this province are made wittols of by their wives in this way. Source: https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Travels_of_Marco_Polo/Book_1/Chapter_41 https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Travels_of_Marco_Polo/Boo...
- hcarvalhoalves 7y ago
  Western culture says it’s monogamous due to moral and law, but something between 1/4 to 1/2 of the men and up to 1/3 of the women “cheat”. So in terms of genetic diversity it’s the same, we just pretend it doesn’t happen while other cultures don’t see an issue.
  - barry-cotter 7y ago
    There are huge differences in extra pair paternity across cultures and social class. People are not the same everywhere. https://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(19)31305-3 https://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(19)... A Historical-Genetic Reconstruction of Human Extra-Pair Paternity Specifically, we observe that estimated EPP rates among married couples varied by more than an order of magnitude, from 0.4% to 5.9%, and peaked among families with a low socioeconomic background living in densely populated cities of the late 19th century. Our results support theoretical predictions that social context can strongly affect the outcomes of sexual conflict in human populations by modulating the incentives and opportunities for engaging in extra-pair relationships.

Iv 7y ago

Evolution focuses on populations, not individuals. A lot of things make more sense if you consider that.

marton78 7y ago
On the contrary. Evolution focuses on individuals.
- iguy 7y ago
  Or lower, on selfish genes™️. Which can certainly imply doing things bad for the individual but good for their kin group. Although I don't know about this Inuit story.
  - hprotagonist 7y ago
    “selfish gene” is my very least favorite anthropomorphism.
- dredmorbius 7y ago
  Darwin himself argued for group selection. He postulated that moral men might not do any better than immoral men but that tribes of moral men would certainly “have an immense advantage” over fractious bands of pirates." https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/whats-good-for-the-group/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/whats-good-for-th... Though the pendulum swings. The case isn't clear-cut, and the argument for group-level selection (or even symbiotic or more general multi-species co-evolution) is strong.
  - im3w1l 7y ago
    Group level selection is irrefutably a thing (Multicellular organisms are selected as a group. Eusocial insects are too). The only question is how important it is in various contexts, in some it may be negligible.
    - 7y ago

selimthegrim 7y ago

Similarly such stories circulate about the Hutterites in Canada. I hear you’d better be white looking though

throwawayhhakdl 7y ago

Monkeys and other animals that have strong social structures will do this for similar reasons.

Nasrudith 7y ago

Well it also depends on perceptions of relationships and monogamy. I don't know of their cultural ideal attitudes towards wives and agency (say she decides who she sleeps with period vs property to be shared spectrum) or actual for that matter but if it is a reciprocal norm it is likely a wash quantitatively. Not to mention survival concerns about having children to care for them in old age. It reminds me of one joke about ancient Norsemen not caring about blatant signs of infidelity like the children having different skin and hair color so long as their sons were strong.