5 ms·

He didn't offer any information to authorities until a month after the disaster and his rearrest and had been ordered deported during the Obama administration.

He didn't offer any information to authorities until a month after the disaster and his rearrest and had been ordered deported during the Obama administration. He was only caught because he was poaching! People died that could have been saved had he been an actual whistleblower. A whistleblower is someone who calls attention before the crash. Waiting until afterward makes you merely a witness (if not a participant).

jspash 7y ago
From the article: "Delmer Joel Ramirez Palma had reported potentially dangerous lapses in construction safety to his supervisors before the collapse, according to lawyers" From previous article: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/nov/22/new-orleans-hotel-collapse-deported-honduras https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/nov/22/new-orleans-... "Construction managers allegedly told him to ignore the issues" Whistleblowing doesn't just mean going above the head of your supervisor. It can mean reporting issue directly to them. Wouldn't you agree? Yes, he probably should have taken it further but maybe his immigration status made him reluctant to do so. And I think that's what clouding this case. But the timeline is pretty clear.
- masonic 7y ago
  He claimed to have reported to his boss(es), but not to the building inspector. Or OSHA. Or any other authority. Or any media. That's what whistleblowing is.
  - Cougher 7y ago
    From Wiki: "Those who become whistleblowers can choose to bring information or allegations to surface either internally or externally. Internally, a whistleblower can bring his/her accusations to the attention of other people within the accused organization such as an immediate supervisor."
    - jaclaz 7y ago
      From Merriam-Webster: https://www.merriam-webster.com/legal/whistleblower https://www.merriam-webster.com/legal/whistleblower Legal Definition of whistleblower : an employee who brings wrongdoing by an employer or other employees to the attention of a government or law enforcement agency and who is commonly vested by statute with rights and remedies for retaliation That is the "legal" definition, but I understood also the "common" definition is such, otherwise any employee that reports to his/her superior/management anything that is not "right" or "legal" or "correct" would instantly become a whistleblower by the sheer fact of reporting that. So according to Wikipedia all internal inspectors, auditors, etc. in a company would be automatically "internal" whistleblowers.
  - yabadabadoes 7y ago
    So an illegal alien should talk to non-immigration officials for the public good or should not? This isn't really a question for the individual, this is a question of government policy. The US decided to force other government institutions to help immigration and a hotel collapse that might have been prevented is not prevented.
csense 7y ago
Yeah, this changes the story a lot. Original headline makes it seem "this guy spoke up, then he's deported," it's more like "this guy was gonna be deported, he offered up what he knew in hopes they'd let him off." It seems like a major building collapse doesn't involve criminals operating in the shadows to the same extent as e.g. drugs, murder, etc. The architects, engineers, contractors, etc. are usually findable since they have to be licensed, there's a paper trail for everything because lots of filings have to be made for big construction, the "crime scene" (collapsed building) is basically impossible to alter / hide, and so on. So I'd say it's a fairly good guess this guy didn't know anything the prosecutors didn't.
- masonic 7y ago
  There's no "paper trail" on workers when they can't legally work. They're paid in cash, under the table. Shoddy work often results. In Berkeley in 2015, 6 Irish students died when a shoddily-built balcony collapsed. No workers could be identified or interviewed because they were all "day labor". This is common in California. Search "slavery towers" for a current case in San Jose using all-illegal labor at "slavery" wages.

jspash 7y ago

From the article: "Delmer Joel Ramirez Palma had reported potentially dangerous lapses in construction safety to his supervisors before the collapse, according to lawyers" From previous article: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/nov/22/new-orleans-hotel-collapse-deported-honduras https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/nov/22/new-orleans-... "Construction managers allegedly told him to ignore the issues" Whistleblowing doesn't just mean going above the head of your supervisor. It can mean reporting issue directly to them. Wouldn't you agree? Yes, he probably should have taken it further but maybe his immigration status made him reluctant to do so. And I think that's what clouding this case. But the timeline is pretty clear.

masonic 7y ago
He claimed to have reported to his boss(es), but not to the building inspector. Or OSHA. Or any other authority. Or any media. That's what whistleblowing is.
- Cougher 7y ago
  From Wiki: "Those who become whistleblowers can choose to bring information or allegations to surface either internally or externally. Internally, a whistleblower can bring his/her accusations to the attention of other people within the accused organization such as an immediate supervisor."
  - jaclaz 7y ago
    From Merriam-Webster: https://www.merriam-webster.com/legal/whistleblower https://www.merriam-webster.com/legal/whistleblower Legal Definition of whistleblower : an employee who brings wrongdoing by an employer or other employees to the attention of a government or law enforcement agency and who is commonly vested by statute with rights and remedies for retaliation That is the "legal" definition, but I understood also the "common" definition is such, otherwise any employee that reports to his/her superior/management anything that is not "right" or "legal" or "correct" would instantly become a whistleblower by the sheer fact of reporting that. So according to Wikipedia all internal inspectors, auditors, etc. in a company would be automatically "internal" whistleblowers.
- yabadabadoes 7y ago
  So an illegal alien should talk to non-immigration officials for the public good or should not? This isn't really a question for the individual, this is a question of government policy. The US decided to force other government institutions to help immigration and a hotel collapse that might have been prevented is not prevented.

csense 7y ago

Yeah, this changes the story a lot. Original headline makes it seem "this guy spoke up, then he's deported," it's more like "this guy was gonna be deported, he offered up what he knew in hopes they'd let him off." It seems like a major building collapse doesn't involve criminals operating in the shadows to the same extent as e.g. drugs, murder, etc. The architects, engineers, contractors, etc. are usually findable since they have to be licensed, there's a paper trail for everything because lots of filings have to be made for big construction, the "crime scene" (collapsed building) is basically impossible to alter / hide, and so on. So I'd say it's a fairly good guess this guy didn't know anything the prosecutors didn't.

masonic 7y ago
There's no "paper trail" on workers when they can't legally work. They're paid in cash, under the table. Shoddy work often results. In Berkeley in 2015, 6 Irish students died when a shoddily-built balcony collapsed. No workers could be identified or interviewed because they were all "day labor". This is common in California. Search "slavery towers" for a current case in San Jose using all-illegal labor at "slavery" wages.