5 ms·

This seems like a pretty obvious case of retaliation. Especially when he had valuable information to an ongoing investigation. All this does is encourage undoc

This seems like a pretty obvious case of retaliation. Especially when he had valuable information to an ongoing investigation. All this does is encourage undocumented immigrants to never report dangerous or illegal behavior under the risk of deportation.

Razengan 7y ago
Is this “Rule By Law?” i.e. everybody is breaking SOME law that the elites can dig up and punish you for if you go against them.
ijiiijji1 7y ago
The meat packing industry, especially the largest processors, had/have a habit of advertising wages in Mexican, Central and South American newspapers in order to encourage unofficial migration. What's more is that the housing areas where these workers stay only (used to) experience token ICE raids to deport one or two people now and then. Meanwhile, the conditions in the processors are dangerous and abhorrent; lacking safety standards workers get maimed regularly but they have no recourse, no future to provide for their families and no Workers Compensation. The meat packing corporations in their areas have essentially absolute power. Even Oprah, a billionaire, found this out the hard way when she stumbled into an ag-gag law.. a class of law that forbid criticizing a certain industry. This is what Citizens' United and corporate kleptocracy has wrought.. the rich run the government as their personal concierges combined with welfare state for themselves through tax loopholes, subsidies, grants and public-private "partnerships." What's worse is most Americans can't accept reality and blame their political "enemy" totem rather than confronting the stark truth: the "other" isn't the enemy, it's the very rich who are everyone's enemy.
masonic 7y ago
He didn't offer any information to authorities until a month after the disaster and his rearrest and had been ordered deported during the Obama administration. He was only caught because he was poaching! People died that could have been saved had he been an actual whistleblower. A whistleblower is someone who calls attention before the crash. Waiting until afterward makes you merely a witness (if not a participant).
- jspash 7y ago
  From the article: "Delmer Joel Ramirez Palma had reported potentially dangerous lapses in construction safety to his supervisors before the collapse, according to lawyers" From previous article: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/nov/22/new-orleans-hotel-collapse-deported-honduras https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/nov/22/new-orleans-... "Construction managers allegedly told him to ignore the issues" Whistleblowing doesn't just mean going above the head of your supervisor. It can mean reporting issue directly to them. Wouldn't you agree? Yes, he probably should have taken it further but maybe his immigration status made him reluctant to do so. And I think that's what clouding this case. But the timeline is pretty clear.
  - masonic 7y ago
    He claimed to have reported to his boss(es), but not to the building inspector. Or OSHA. Or any other authority. Or any media. That's what whistleblowing is.
    - Cougher 7y ago
      From Wiki: "Those who become whistleblowers can choose to bring information or allegations to surface either internally or externally. Internally, a whistleblower can bring his/her accusations to the attention of other people within the accused organization such as an immediate supervisor."
      - jaclaz 7y ago
        From Merriam-Webster: https://www.merriam-webster.com/legal/whistleblower https://www.merriam-webster.com/legal/whistleblower Legal Definition of whistleblower : an employee who brings wrongdoing by an employer or other employees to the attention of a government or law enforcement agency and who is commonly vested by statute with rights and remedies for retaliation That is the "legal" definition, but I understood also the "common" definition is such, otherwise any employee that reports to his/her superior/management anything that is not "right" or "legal" or "correct" would instantly become a whistleblower by the sheer fact of reporting that. So according to Wikipedia all internal inspectors, auditors, etc. in a company would be automatically "internal" whistleblowers.

Razengan 7y ago

Is this “Rule By Law?” i.e. everybody is breaking SOME law that the elites can dig up and punish you for if you go against them.

ijiiijji1 7y ago

The meat packing industry, especially the largest processors, had/have a habit of advertising wages in Mexican, Central and South American newspapers in order to encourage unofficial migration. What's more is that the housing areas where these workers stay only (used to) experience token ICE raids to deport one or two people now and then. Meanwhile, the conditions in the processors are dangerous and abhorrent; lacking safety standards workers get maimed regularly but they have no recourse, no future to provide for their families and no Workers Compensation. The meat packing corporations in their areas have essentially absolute power. Even Oprah, a billionaire, found this out the hard way when she stumbled into an ag-gag law.. a class of law that forbid criticizing a certain industry. This is what Citizens' United and corporate kleptocracy has wrought.. the rich run the government as their personal concierges combined with welfare state for themselves through tax loopholes, subsidies, grants and public-private "partnerships." What's worse is most Americans can't accept reality and blame their political "enemy" totem rather than confronting the stark truth: the "other" isn't the enemy, it's the very rich who are everyone's enemy.

masonic 7y ago

He didn't offer any information to authorities until a month after the disaster and his rearrest and had been ordered deported during the Obama administration. He was only caught because he was poaching! People died that could have been saved had he been an actual whistleblower. A whistleblower is someone who calls attention before the crash. Waiting until afterward makes you merely a witness (if not a participant).

jspash 7y ago
From the article: "Delmer Joel Ramirez Palma had reported potentially dangerous lapses in construction safety to his supervisors before the collapse, according to lawyers" From previous article: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/nov/22/new-orleans-hotel-collapse-deported-honduras https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/nov/22/new-orleans-... "Construction managers allegedly told him to ignore the issues" Whistleblowing doesn't just mean going above the head of your supervisor. It can mean reporting issue directly to them. Wouldn't you agree? Yes, he probably should have taken it further but maybe his immigration status made him reluctant to do so. And I think that's what clouding this case. But the timeline is pretty clear.
- masonic 7y ago
  He claimed to have reported to his boss(es), but not to the building inspector. Or OSHA. Or any other authority. Or any media. That's what whistleblowing is.
  - Cougher 7y ago
    From Wiki: "Those who become whistleblowers can choose to bring information or allegations to surface either internally or externally. Internally, a whistleblower can bring his/her accusations to the attention of other people within the accused organization such as an immediate supervisor."
    - jaclaz 7y ago
      From Merriam-Webster: https://www.merriam-webster.com/legal/whistleblower https://www.merriam-webster.com/legal/whistleblower Legal Definition of whistleblower : an employee who brings wrongdoing by an employer or other employees to the attention of a government or law enforcement agency and who is commonly vested by statute with rights and remedies for retaliation That is the "legal" definition, but I understood also the "common" definition is such, otherwise any employee that reports to his/her superior/management anything that is not "right" or "legal" or "correct" would instantly become a whistleblower by the sheer fact of reporting that. So according to Wikipedia all internal inspectors, auditors, etc. in a company would be automatically "internal" whistleblowers.