4 ms·

Cool! Aside from satisfying the preference for a non-Schemey syntax, what is the advantage of Fleck over the Scheme shell (who's manual page contains this class

Cool! Aside from satisfying the preference for a non-Schemey syntax, what is the advantage of Fleck over the Scheme shell (who's manual page contains this classic gem of a rant: https://scsh.net/docu/html/man.html https://scsh.net/docu/html/man.html) or the newer Racket Shell (unfortunately named Rash)?

tambourine_man 7y ago
I found that “rant” a bit scary.
- arundelo 7y ago
  I don't know Olin Shivers but I've read enough of his writing to know that this acknowledgements section was written with tongue in cheek, and in fact it's a funny enough piece of writing that I've shared it a number of times like the grandparent comment did.
  - fwip 7y ago
    It was moderately funny until the murder fantasies started.
75dvtwin 7y ago
Speculating here... but in my reading: Fleck does not require a compiled executable to be installed. As long as you have bash Fleck will work. For scsh you have to have to install platform specific executable. If it is available in a particular distro, perhaps it is not that bad. I write, these days, a lot of Ansible installation tools For Multiple versions of (and almost bare) linux, freebsd, openbsd (and hopefully at some point for DragonFlyBSD). Today, I have to write shell-specific scripts to do application-centric process management, application-centric backup preparation steps, health monitors, smoke tests and so on. To minimize my work, I instruct Ansible to preinstall bash everywhere... and then I run the bash scripts. But writing bash scripts is, well,... unsettling (hard to get used to primitive return values, lack of normal enumerated parameter passing and so on) With Fleck (at least this is my reading), I will be able to install Fleck via Ansible and then write all the scripts in Scheme (which I much prefer compared to bash, zsh or anything else). I guess, if, in the future, Fleck will help me to avoid worrying about Powershell, kornshell and so on -- I would be delighted. Sort of like shell-vm on top of base shells :-)
- coding123 7y ago
  Thanks - it was hard to understand the need for Fleck on the fleck website. But your post succinctly explains it.
- vasili111 7y ago
  offtopic >hopefully at some point for DragonFlyBSD What advantage of DragonFlyBSD you see today over other OSs?
  - 75dvtwin 7y ago
    We are at very early stages, figuring out if we can use Hammer2 file system as content addressable storage system. Our needs are such, that writes are relatively rare, and go into one cluster, while reads of our blobs, need to go to geographically distributed nodes, whose disk topology is different (less capable) than that of a muster, plus they have somewhat-unreliable connectivity to the master. So Hammer's network-problems-tolerant streaming replication and offline de-duplication is attractive, at least conceptually.
- aasasd 7y ago
  > I instruct Ansible to preinstall bash everywhere... and then I run the bash scripts Wait a minute. I may be mistaken, but I thought Ansible needed Python on the managed machines, to run some of the modules. Afaik it uploads some Python code via ssh before doing the work proper.
  - capableweb 7y ago
    I'm pretty sure Ansible doesn't _require_ python on the target machine as I've run Ansible before with servers that didn't have python on them.
    - aasasd 7y ago
      Ah, yes, the ‘raw’ and ‘script’ modules can work without Python, so I guess this makes 75dvtwin's workflow possible. (https://docs.ansible.com/ansible/latest/installation_guide/intro_installation.html#managed-node-requirements https://docs.ansible.com/ansible/latest/installation_guide/i...)

tambourine_man 7y ago

I found that “rant” a bit scary.

arundelo 7y ago
I don't know Olin Shivers but I've read enough of his writing to know that this acknowledgements section was written with tongue in cheek, and in fact it's a funny enough piece of writing that I've shared it a number of times like the grandparent comment did.
- fwip 7y ago
  It was moderately funny until the murder fantasies started.

75dvtwin 7y ago

Speculating here... but in my reading: Fleck does not require a compiled executable to be installed. As long as you have bash Fleck will work. For scsh you have to have to install platform specific executable. If it is available in a particular distro, perhaps it is not that bad. I write, these days, a lot of Ansible installation tools For Multiple versions of (and almost bare) linux, freebsd, openbsd (and hopefully at some point for DragonFlyBSD). Today, I have to write shell-specific scripts to do application-centric process management, application-centric backup preparation steps, health monitors, smoke tests and so on. To minimize my work, I instruct Ansible to preinstall bash everywhere... and then I run the bash scripts. But writing bash scripts is, well,... unsettling (hard to get used to primitive return values, lack of normal enumerated parameter passing and so on) With Fleck (at least this is my reading), I will be able to install Fleck via Ansible and then write all the scripts in Scheme (which I much prefer compared to bash, zsh or anything else). I guess, if, in the future, Fleck will help me to avoid worrying about Powershell, kornshell and so on -- I would be delighted. Sort of like shell-vm on top of base shells :-)

coding123 7y ago
Thanks - it was hard to understand the need for Fleck on the fleck website. But your post succinctly explains it.
vasili111 7y ago
offtopic >hopefully at some point for DragonFlyBSD What advantage of DragonFlyBSD you see today over other OSs?
- 75dvtwin 7y ago
  We are at very early stages, figuring out if we can use Hammer2 file system as content addressable storage system. Our needs are such, that writes are relatively rare, and go into one cluster, while reads of our blobs, need to go to geographically distributed nodes, whose disk topology is different (less capable) than that of a muster, plus they have somewhat-unreliable connectivity to the master. So Hammer's network-problems-tolerant streaming replication and offline de-duplication is attractive, at least conceptually.
aasasd 7y ago
> I instruct Ansible to preinstall bash everywhere... and then I run the bash scripts Wait a minute. I may be mistaken, but I thought Ansible needed Python on the managed machines, to run some of the modules. Afaik it uploads some Python code via ssh before doing the work proper.
- capableweb 7y ago
  I'm pretty sure Ansible doesn't _require_ python on the target machine as I've run Ansible before with servers that didn't have python on them.
  - aasasd 7y ago
    Ah, yes, the ‘raw’ and ‘script’ modules can work without Python, so I guess this makes 75dvtwin's workflow possible. (https://docs.ansible.com/ansible/latest/installation_guide/intro_installation.html#managed-node-requirements https://docs.ansible.com/ansible/latest/installation_guide/i...)