8 ms·

Disproved Discoveries That Won Nobel Prizes (2015)

111 points by wwarner 7y ago

wyxuan 7y ago
I'm surprised they didn't include lobotomies in this list. That was a huge blunder. Otherwise, the Nobel committee has a pretty good track record. This is of course because they wait for the dust to settle on these discoveries and for the scientific community to validate and build on those conclusions. This is why there is such a large lag time between the discovery and the granting of the prize.
- frozenport 7y ago
  Many doctors, patients and family members of the period believed that despite potentially catastrophic consequences, the results of lobotomy were seemingly positive in many instances or, at least they were deemed as such when measured next to the apparent alternative of long-term institutionalisation.[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobotomy#Prevalence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobotomy#Prevalence Lobotomies do something, unlike the other cases in the article.
  - masklinn 7y ago
    It's hard to disagree with these early criticisms though: > it makes the custodial care of many patients easier. Let me remark in passing that killing them makes their custodial care still easier and > through lobotomy an insane person is changed into an idiot
- Ice_cream_suit 7y ago
  Functional stereotactic neurosurgery for psychiatric and neurodegenerative disorders is actively practiced. The popular media is not a good place to get your information from... "Functional neurosurgeons at UVa are currently treating: Neuropsychiatric conditions, including obsessive-compulsive disorder and depression" https://med.virginia.edu/neurosurgery/services/functional-neurosurgery/ https://med.virginia.edu/neurosurgery/services/functional-ne... "We read with great interest the publication of Liu et al. [1 ]reporting results from the largest published series of schizophrenia patients treated with MRI-guided bilateral anterior capsulotomy with 2 years of follow-up. Let us specify that a series of 87 schizophrenic patients operated, notably, by capsulotomy - but associated with a cingulotomy, amygdalectomy or thermocoagulation of the nucleus accumbens" https://www.karger.com/Article/Fulltext/366005 https://www.karger.com/Article/Fulltext/366005 http://med.stanford.edu/neurosurgery/divisions/functional.html http://med.stanford.edu/neurosurgery/divisions/functional.ht...
  - masklinn 7y ago
    > Functional stereotactic neurosurgery for psychiatric and neurodegenerative disorders is actively practiced. Lobotomy is the removal of most or all of the prefrontal cortex. That its descendant is now called "functional neurosurgery" does tell you how disparaged and discredited lobotomy is. It's not unlike nuclear medicine though, there was an early hype phase where it was applied too often[0], too much and without enough precision. The underpinnings remain in active use but at a very different level of activity, and with much more precise targeting. [0] the US performed 20000 lobotomies during the 40s, mostly on women.
scarmig 7y ago
Nobel Prizes in the sciences do seem to withstand the test of time better than economics, literature, and (laughs) peace.
- paggle 7y ago
  With actual war criminals winning peace prizes I do wonder what is the point of it. The value of an award is in the company it puts you in, now it looks like the peace Nobel is just worth its dollar value and its value on the TED circuit.
  - hos234 7y ago
    Well humans are human. Mistakes happen and as long as they aren't increasing over time, it's all cool. Awards don't just exist to award the individual. In polarizing times, where the instinct is to create more conflict as a path to resolving conflict, what many of the Peace Prize winners have done, is to remind everyone that alternate non-obvious paths exist.
  - _Microft 7y ago
    Do you talk about war criminals being awarded the Nobel peace prize or about Nobel peace prize laureates turning into war criminals? This is an important difference in my opinion. Since you seem to follow this more closely than I do, would you mind giving an example?
    - pram 7y ago
      Aung San Suu Kyi is probably the most recent example with a very dubious legacy.
    - dragonwriter 7y ago
      > Do you talk about war criminals being awarded the Nobel peace prize or about Nobel peace prize laureates turning into war criminals? For the former, Henry Kissinger. There are examples of the latter, as well.
ncmncm 7y ago
It is kind of looking like the prize for Dark Energy was awarded for a nonexistent phenomenon. The dust hasn't settled, but it will or should be very embarrassing if it turns out so.
- ldarby 7y ago
  The whole point of the article is that it shouldn't be embarrassing. The current dark energy theory is just currently the best explanation for observed phenomena (or was, I'm not sure what you're referring to). Even if it's wrong, the Nobel is still deserved even just for making that observation, because it encourages others to pursue science.
- hpcjoe 7y ago
  Not a practicing physicist anymore, so I may be hopelessly out of date. This noted, I've been under the impression for a while that dark energy/dark matter is more likely a detailed accounting error. That is, it's likely that it is not a "new" thing, but old physics that we have an incomplete understanding of. Science is funny that way. Early results considered groundbreaking are refined and extended over time. And sometimes, as we gain more information and comprehension, the effect we think we observed is subsumed into "boring" physics (this is how it was described to me by a friend).
  - baddox 7y ago
    I don’t know if there’s a huge difference between “a brand new thing” and “an old thing that is not interacting at all the way we understand it to.”
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
twic 7y ago
The Golgi case seems dubious. Golgi was wrong about the nervous system being continuous, but he did masses of other pioneering work in neurobiology and cell biology. He discovered the Golgi apparatus, which continues to baffle undergraduates to this day. He developed the staining technique which Ramón y Cajal eventually used to prove him wrong! I don't think the Nobel was given specifically for the idea that he nervous system is continuous, so it seems justified even today.
- masklinn 7y ago
  The joint nobel was awarded > "in recognition of their work on the structure of the nervous system" Not cell biology, not lab techniques, but work on specifically the structure of the structure of the nervous system.
  - ketzu 7y ago
    But they also awarded it to two researchers proposing opposite interpretations, so they obviously did not endorse his interpretation of a continuous nervous system.
    - mannykannot 7y ago
      Insofar as the committee endorses specific discoveries (Nobel's criterion was for conferring the greatest benefit on mankind), it notably did not endorse relativity in awarding the 1921 prize to Einstein, either. It has been argued that this was due to the indirect influence of Henri Bergson's philosophical- and intuition-based objections. http://nautil.us/issue/35/boundaries/this-philosopher-helped-ensure-there-was-no-nobel-for-relativity http://nautil.us/issue/35/boundaries/this-philosopher-helped... The committe went so far as delaying the award until 1922, saying, in 1921, that none of the candidates that year had met their standards. https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/physics/1921/summary/ https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/physics/1921/summary/
  - twic 7y ago
    Yes, and he did loads of work on the structure of the nervous system, including developing techniques, which is an inseperable part of scientific research, which was entirely valid.
svara 7y ago
Odd to see Moniz' 1949 lobotomy prize omitted here. See https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/medicine/1949/moniz/article/ https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/medicine/1949/moniz/articl...
- ekianjo 7y ago
  This makes me very sad: > However, I see no reason for indignation at what was done in the 1940s as at that time there were no other alternatives! So, destroying someone prefrontal functions (which is basically akin to destroying their whole personality) was an acceptable remedy for schizophrenia treatment, because, err, we didn't have anything else? How can anyone even write anything like that?
  - gamblor956 7y ago
    When you meet people with severe enough schizoaffective disorders, you will start to feel differently. Imagine being able to get someone off the streets and back on course with their life, without risk of relapse, with a simple outpatient surgery? And the crazy thing is that we actually have the medical capability to do so. We just don't have the legal capability.
- BeetleB 7y ago
  Because it is disputed whether it was "wrong" (in terms of effectiveness, not in terms of morality). It did achieve what it claimed. It just happened to be a rather blunt method of doing it.
  - svara 7y ago
    The point of any medical intervention is to make the patient better. By that standard, a lobotomy is ineffective. Lobotomies "worked" by making patients deeply disabled, in a way that made them more manageable.
    - lovehashbrowns 7y ago
      They performed one on JFK's sister: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosemary_Kennedy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosemary_Kennedy It's a very sad story, although that's pretty common for lobotomy cases.

111 points by wwarner 7y ago

I'm surprised they didn't include lobotomies in this list. That was a huge blunder. Otherwise, the Nobel committee has a pretty good track record. This is of course because they wait for the dust to settle on these discoveries and for the scientific community to validate and build on those conclusions. This is why there is such a large lag time between the discovery and the granting of the prize.

frozenport 7y ago
Many doctors, patients and family members of the period believed that despite potentially catastrophic consequences, the results of lobotomy were seemingly positive in many instances or, at least they were deemed as such when measured next to the apparent alternative of long-term institutionalisation.[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobotomy#Prevalence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobotomy#Prevalence Lobotomies do something, unlike the other cases in the article.
- masklinn 7y ago
  It's hard to disagree with these early criticisms though: > it makes the custodial care of many patients easier. Let me remark in passing that killing them makes their custodial care still easier and > through lobotomy an insane person is changed into an idiot
Ice_cream_suit 7y ago
Functional stereotactic neurosurgery for psychiatric and neurodegenerative disorders is actively practiced. The popular media is not a good place to get your information from... "Functional neurosurgeons at UVa are currently treating: Neuropsychiatric conditions, including obsessive-compulsive disorder and depression" https://med.virginia.edu/neurosurgery/services/functional-neurosurgery/ https://med.virginia.edu/neurosurgery/services/functional-ne... "We read with great interest the publication of Liu et al. [1 ]reporting results from the largest published series of schizophrenia patients treated with MRI-guided bilateral anterior capsulotomy with 2 years of follow-up. Let us specify that a series of 87 schizophrenic patients operated, notably, by capsulotomy - but associated with a cingulotomy, amygdalectomy or thermocoagulation of the nucleus accumbens" https://www.karger.com/Article/Fulltext/366005 https://www.karger.com/Article/Fulltext/366005 http://med.stanford.edu/neurosurgery/divisions/functional.html http://med.stanford.edu/neurosurgery/divisions/functional.ht...
- masklinn 7y ago
  > Functional stereotactic neurosurgery for psychiatric and neurodegenerative disorders is actively practiced. Lobotomy is the removal of most or all of the prefrontal cortex. That its descendant is now called "functional neurosurgery" does tell you how disparaged and discredited lobotomy is. It's not unlike nuclear medicine though, there was an early hype phase where it was applied too often[0], too much and without enough precision. The underpinnings remain in active use but at a very different level of activity, and with much more precise targeting. [0] the US performed 20000 lobotomies during the 40s, mostly on women.

scarmig 7y ago

Nobel Prizes in the sciences do seem to withstand the test of time better than economics, literature, and (laughs) peace.

paggle 7y ago
With actual war criminals winning peace prizes I do wonder what is the point of it. The value of an award is in the company it puts you in, now it looks like the peace Nobel is just worth its dollar value and its value on the TED circuit.
- hos234 7y ago
  Well humans are human. Mistakes happen and as long as they aren't increasing over time, it's all cool. Awards don't just exist to award the individual. In polarizing times, where the instinct is to create more conflict as a path to resolving conflict, what many of the Peace Prize winners have done, is to remind everyone that alternate non-obvious paths exist.
- _Microft 7y ago
  Do you talk about war criminals being awarded the Nobel peace prize or about Nobel peace prize laureates turning into war criminals? This is an important difference in my opinion. Since you seem to follow this more closely than I do, would you mind giving an example?
  - pram 7y ago
    Aung San Suu Kyi is probably the most recent example with a very dubious legacy.
  - dragonwriter 7y ago
    > Do you talk about war criminals being awarded the Nobel peace prize or about Nobel peace prize laureates turning into war criminals? For the former, Henry Kissinger. There are examples of the latter, as well.

ncmncm 7y ago

It is kind of looking like the prize for Dark Energy was awarded for a nonexistent phenomenon. The dust hasn't settled, but it will or should be very embarrassing if it turns out so.

ldarby 7y ago
The whole point of the article is that it shouldn't be embarrassing. The current dark energy theory is just currently the best explanation for observed phenomena (or was, I'm not sure what you're referring to). Even if it's wrong, the Nobel is still deserved even just for making that observation, because it encourages others to pursue science.
hpcjoe 7y ago
Not a practicing physicist anymore, so I may be hopelessly out of date. This noted, I've been under the impression for a while that dark energy/dark matter is more likely a detailed accounting error. That is, it's likely that it is not a "new" thing, but old physics that we have an incomplete understanding of. Science is funny that way. Early results considered groundbreaking are refined and extended over time. And sometimes, as we gain more information and comprehension, the effect we think we observed is subsumed into "boring" physics (this is how it was described to me by a friend).
- baddox 7y ago
  I don’t know if there’s a huge difference between “a brand new thing” and “an old thing that is not interacting at all the way we understand it to.”

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

twic 7y ago

The Golgi case seems dubious. Golgi was wrong about the nervous system being continuous, but he did masses of other pioneering work in neurobiology and cell biology. He discovered the Golgi apparatus, which continues to baffle undergraduates to this day. He developed the staining technique which Ramón y Cajal eventually used to prove him wrong! I don't think the Nobel was given specifically for the idea that he nervous system is continuous, so it seems justified even today.

masklinn 7y ago
The joint nobel was awarded > "in recognition of their work on the structure of the nervous system" Not cell biology, not lab techniques, but work on specifically the structure of the structure of the nervous system.
- ketzu 7y ago
  But they also awarded it to two researchers proposing opposite interpretations, so they obviously did not endorse his interpretation of a continuous nervous system.
  - mannykannot 7y ago
    Insofar as the committee endorses specific discoveries (Nobel's criterion was for conferring the greatest benefit on mankind), it notably did not endorse relativity in awarding the 1921 prize to Einstein, either. It has been argued that this was due to the indirect influence of Henri Bergson's philosophical- and intuition-based objections. http://nautil.us/issue/35/boundaries/this-philosopher-helped-ensure-there-was-no-nobel-for-relativity http://nautil.us/issue/35/boundaries/this-philosopher-helped... The committe went so far as delaying the award until 1922, saying, in 1921, that none of the candidates that year had met their standards. https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/physics/1921/summary/ https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/physics/1921/summary/
- twic 7y ago
  Yes, and he did loads of work on the structure of the nervous system, including developing techniques, which is an inseperable part of scientific research, which was entirely valid.

svara 7y ago

Odd to see Moniz' 1949 lobotomy prize omitted here. See https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/medicine/1949/moniz/article/ https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/medicine/1949/moniz/articl...

ekianjo 7y ago
This makes me very sad: > However, I see no reason for indignation at what was done in the 1940s as at that time there were no other alternatives! So, destroying someone prefrontal functions (which is basically akin to destroying their whole personality) was an acceptable remedy for schizophrenia treatment, because, err, we didn't have anything else? How can anyone even write anything like that?
- gamblor956 7y ago
  When you meet people with severe enough schizoaffective disorders, you will start to feel differently. Imagine being able to get someone off the streets and back on course with their life, without risk of relapse, with a simple outpatient surgery? And the crazy thing is that we actually have the medical capability to do so. We just don't have the legal capability.
BeetleB 7y ago
Because it is disputed whether it was "wrong" (in terms of effectiveness, not in terms of morality). It did achieve what it claimed. It just happened to be a rather blunt method of doing it.
- svara 7y ago
  The point of any medical intervention is to make the patient better. By that standard, a lobotomy is ineffective. Lobotomies "worked" by making patients deeply disabled, in a way that made them more manageable.
  - lovehashbrowns 7y ago
    They performed one on JFK's sister: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosemary_Kennedy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosemary_Kennedy It's a very sad story, although that's pretty common for lobotomy cases.