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Have you browsed his Twitter? Does he strike you as a criminal? People like Eric Schmidt’s daughter tweet and post about NK in maybe less than legit ways? Shou

by tmsh 7y ago

Have you browsed his Twitter? Does he strike you as a criminal? People like Eric Schmidt’s daughter tweet and post about NK in maybe less than legit ways? Should they go to prison for five years? In all sincerity: why are you cavalierly apologizing for the US government (just 5-6 years guys and he did bad things! no need to worry!)? I’m being harsh with you because you’re defending a government that’s about to destroy this guy’s life (to send a “message“) and based on his Twitter he’s like you and me and I don’t think you realize that.

rrdharan 7y ago
Funny how much this comment is revealing about the nature of bias in how crime is treated and the accused are prosecuted. "This guy doesn't seem like a criminal" is misleading and revealing of all kinds of inherit biases and privileges.
daenz 7y ago
>Does he strike you as a criminal? What a passing impression of someone have to do with whether or not they committed a crime?
creato 7y ago
> and based on his Twitter he’s like you and me and I don’t think you realize that. Why does this matter? People like your or me can't be prosecuted for violating sanctions on NK? This is a crime that I wouldn't expect to be committed by anyone other than a white collar professional of some sort. My read of the guy's twitter tells me he has been blinded by his ideology, and therefore prone to doing something stupid. I doubt that is anything like you or me. But we're both making snap judgements based on very little real information.
- tmsh 7y ago
  Good points. Agreed. I just think (like you say with very little real information) that there’s a risk in being biased by the government’s complaint. Occam’s razor suggests a person, who is good at ethereum development, might tweet his NK visa out of ignorance about the consequences of what he’s doing v. some elaborate criminality worthy of 5 years in prison. And maybe we should give him the benefit of the doubt v. defending the government given its track record of sometimes missing things.
  - akerl_ 7y ago
    You can do something foolishly that is worthy of jail time. But in this case he appears to have asked ahead of time if this behavior was problematic, was told that it was, then did it anyways.
    - ShorsHammer 7y ago
      To me that's the kicker. He's plainly had doubts, confirmed those doubts were real and yet went ahead regardless. Without that he'd surely be finding a lot more sympathy, regardless of personal opinions on NK.
  - diego 7y ago
    What does it matter what we think of him? He is being accused of a crime, and presumed innocent. If it goes to trial, then the jury will have access to all the evidence. You and I don't.
    - asdfasgasdgasdg 7y ago
      He's presumed innocent legally. The presumptions of the legal system are not binding in most other contexts, internet discussions being one example.
  - nordsieck 7y ago
    > Occam’s razor suggests a person, who is good at ethereum development, might tweet his NK visa out of ignorance about the consequences of what he’s doing v. some elaborate criminality worthy of 5 years in prison. Did you not read the post you originally replied to? > Unsurprisingly, the State Department told Griffith he could not in fact present or attend the Pyongyang Conference on Blockchain and Cryptocurrency. > Regardless, Griffith attended and presented at the Pyongyang Conference on Blockchain and Cryptocurrency.
  - tptacek 7y ago
    In or about April 19, VIRGIN GRIFFITH, the defendant, traveled to the DPRK to attend and present at the “Pyongyang Blockchain and Cryptocurrency Conference” (the “DPRK Cryptocurrency Conference”). The US State Department denied GRIFFITH permission to go to the DPRK to attend the DPRK Cryptocurrency Conference due to the DPRK Sanctions, but GRIFFITH nonetheless traveled to the DPRK, via China, to participate. The statute he violated has a "willfully" mental state requirement, meaning Griffith would potentially have a defense at trial if he could convince a jury he had no idea what he was doing was prohibited by sanctions. From the complaint, it seems unlikely he'd be able to do that.
- billfruit 7y ago
  Do international sanctions apply to individuals? Even otherwise also there might be conscientious reasons for doing something that a government might find objectionable. Like people going to Iraq during the war, to act as human shields, in an attempt to stop war.
  - pvg 7y ago
    Of course. Why wouldn't they? They'd be completely pointless if they didn't apply to individuals.
techstrategist 7y ago
A criminal is a person who has been convicted of a crime, not a cartoon “bad guy” who demonstrates his criminal tendencies on social media.
fzeroracer 7y ago
So you're saying because he looks like a white collar worker he gets immunity from committing crimes despite being very explicitly told that what he was going to do is a Bad Idea? This isn't a case of someone doing something by accident and getting slapped by the government.
- johnpowell 7y ago
  It is absolutely the black guy that is 16 and is shot by the cops is a "man". But this guy that is nearly 30 is just a naive boy that was warned by the state department, but you know.. Kids being kids.
chrisseaton 7y ago
> Have you browsed his Twitter? Does he strike you as a criminal? This is not how we assess if someone has committed a crime, thankfully.

by tmsh 7y ago

rrdharan 7y ago

Funny how much this comment is revealing about the nature of bias in how crime is treated and the accused are prosecuted. "This guy doesn't seem like a criminal" is misleading and revealing of all kinds of inherit biases and privileges.

daenz 7y ago

>Does he strike you as a criminal? What a passing impression of someone have to do with whether or not they committed a crime?

creato 7y ago

> and based on his Twitter he’s like you and me and I don’t think you realize that. Why does this matter? People like your or me can't be prosecuted for violating sanctions on NK? This is a crime that I wouldn't expect to be committed by anyone other than a white collar professional of some sort. My read of the guy's twitter tells me he has been blinded by his ideology, and therefore prone to doing something stupid. I doubt that is anything like you or me. But we're both making snap judgements based on very little real information.

tmsh 7y ago
Good points. Agreed. I just think (like you say with very little real information) that there’s a risk in being biased by the government’s complaint. Occam’s razor suggests a person, who is good at ethereum development, might tweet his NK visa out of ignorance about the consequences of what he’s doing v. some elaborate criminality worthy of 5 years in prison. And maybe we should give him the benefit of the doubt v. defending the government given its track record of sometimes missing things.
- akerl_ 7y ago
  You can do something foolishly that is worthy of jail time. But in this case he appears to have asked ahead of time if this behavior was problematic, was told that it was, then did it anyways.
  - ShorsHammer 7y ago
    To me that's the kicker. He's plainly had doubts, confirmed those doubts were real and yet went ahead regardless. Without that he'd surely be finding a lot more sympathy, regardless of personal opinions on NK.
- diego 7y ago
  What does it matter what we think of him? He is being accused of a crime, and presumed innocent. If it goes to trial, then the jury will have access to all the evidence. You and I don't.
  - asdfasgasdgasdg 7y ago
    He's presumed innocent legally. The presumptions of the legal system are not binding in most other contexts, internet discussions being one example.
- nordsieck 7y ago
  > Occam’s razor suggests a person, who is good at ethereum development, might tweet his NK visa out of ignorance about the consequences of what he’s doing v. some elaborate criminality worthy of 5 years in prison. Did you not read the post you originally replied to? > Unsurprisingly, the State Department told Griffith he could not in fact present or attend the Pyongyang Conference on Blockchain and Cryptocurrency. > Regardless, Griffith attended and presented at the Pyongyang Conference on Blockchain and Cryptocurrency.
- tptacek 7y ago
  In or about April 19, VIRGIN GRIFFITH, the defendant, traveled to the DPRK to attend and present at the “Pyongyang Blockchain and Cryptocurrency Conference” (the “DPRK Cryptocurrency Conference”). The US State Department denied GRIFFITH permission to go to the DPRK to attend the DPRK Cryptocurrency Conference due to the DPRK Sanctions, but GRIFFITH nonetheless traveled to the DPRK, via China, to participate. The statute he violated has a "willfully" mental state requirement, meaning Griffith would potentially have a defense at trial if he could convince a jury he had no idea what he was doing was prohibited by sanctions. From the complaint, it seems unlikely he'd be able to do that.
billfruit 7y ago
Do international sanctions apply to individuals? Even otherwise also there might be conscientious reasons for doing something that a government might find objectionable. Like people going to Iraq during the war, to act as human shields, in an attempt to stop war.
- pvg 7y ago
  Of course. Why wouldn't they? They'd be completely pointless if they didn't apply to individuals.

techstrategist 7y ago

A criminal is a person who has been convicted of a crime, not a cartoon “bad guy” who demonstrates his criminal tendencies on social media.

fzeroracer 7y ago

So you're saying because he looks like a white collar worker he gets immunity from committing crimes despite being very explicitly told that what he was going to do is a Bad Idea? This isn't a case of someone doing something by accident and getting slapped by the government.

johnpowell 7y ago
It is absolutely the black guy that is 16 and is shot by the cops is a "man". But this guy that is nearly 30 is just a naive boy that was warned by the state department, but you know.. Kids being kids.

chrisseaton 7y ago

> Have you browsed his Twitter? Does he strike you as a criminal? This is not how we assess if someone has committed a crime, thankfully.