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Day before yesterday a bus crashed in Argentina, two kids died as consequence of the crash. Earlier this month the organism that regulates public transportatio

Day before yesterday a bus crashed in Argentina, two kids died as consequence of the crash. Earlier this month the organism that regulates public transportation allowed companies to send just one driver on long distance trips, forcing that person to stay awake during the whole journey.

timwaagh 7y ago
I don't think we should dehumanize people just because they are on the other site of the debate. To address the point, there are good reasons for deprioritising safety given the economic climate.
- whisps 7y ago
  What are the good reasons?
  - timwaagh 7y ago
    Argentina's economy is going down the drain atm. Labor cost is a big factor in transportation so keeping two drivers might be making the things too expensive. Independent of this, buses are safer than cars, so safety wise the argument could be made if it gets people out of the car it's worth it. I don't think I've ever had two drivers for long distance buses in Europe. I don't think we're very unsafe.
    - michaelcampbell 7y ago
      I'm sure the 2 dead kids didn't either.
    - DoingIsLearning 7y ago
      I am not sure where in Europe you've experienced _long_ distance buses but heavy vehicles have a tacho by law in any EU country. All drivers have to prove they rested x hours if they have done y kilometers. Any company violating this will be charged. Also consider that Argentina North to South is well over 3000km which would be equivalent to a trip between Estonia and Greece.
      - timwaagh 7y ago
        The thing about the tacho is true. On my trip from NL to Austria all of us had to get out so the driver could take rest at some point. This particular regulation doesn't force bus companies to just double the labor cost, though.
    - mrleinad 7y ago
      Problem is not just one trip, and you're right, economy is going down the drain here. Problem is that those drivers take as much work as they can because they can't make ends meet after they collect wages. So they put extra hours to get more money. Remove a second driver, and you have a sleep deprived driver taking double or triple shifts just to collect an extra coin.
      - timwaagh 7y ago
        I don't doubt it. Hopefully the damage will be limited. Maybe better wages are possible when things get better. Not many people can sleep on a bus though. having two sleep deprived drivers might not be that much better than one.
        mrleinad 7y ago
        We don't need two sleep deprived drivers, that was just another way to mitigate the problem. We need companies to pay drivers enough so they can do their job and go to sleep before taking the next shift.
        mrleinad 7y ago
        https://www.clarin.com/sociedad/pequena-trampa-legal-habilita-reducir-descanso-choferes_0_fH6jddm6.html https://www.clarin.com/sociedad/pequena-trampa-legal-habilit...
    - QuanticSausage 7y ago
      Yeah, I bet you think that the economy problem in Argentina will get better cutting costs. The real problem, however, is the job culture here, if not the overall culture.
      - mrleinad 7y ago
        Saying it's due to culture it's like saying no one is to blame and there's no way to change this in the short term. No, it's not culture. The problem is the finantial and economical decisions taken by the government in the past 4 years. Hopefully these will be reverted by the next administration.
mrleinad 7y ago
This source, who asked to reserve his name, was eloquent: “Outside the high season is one thing, but within the season, employers, to increase their profitability, force workers not to respect their hours of rest. The driver should say so, yes, but if you have your source of work at stake… ” (link in spanish) https://www.clarin.com/sociedad/pequena-trampa-legal-habilita-reducir-descanso-choferes_0_fH6jddm6.html https://www.clarin.com/sociedad/pequena-trampa-legal-habilit...

timwaagh 7y ago

I don't think we should dehumanize people just because they are on the other site of the debate. To address the point, there are good reasons for deprioritising safety given the economic climate.

whisps 7y ago
What are the good reasons?
- timwaagh 7y ago
  Argentina's economy is going down the drain atm. Labor cost is a big factor in transportation so keeping two drivers might be making the things too expensive. Independent of this, buses are safer than cars, so safety wise the argument could be made if it gets people out of the car it's worth it. I don't think I've ever had two drivers for long distance buses in Europe. I don't think we're very unsafe.
  - michaelcampbell 7y ago
    I'm sure the 2 dead kids didn't either.
  - DoingIsLearning 7y ago
    I am not sure where in Europe you've experienced _long_ distance buses but heavy vehicles have a tacho by law in any EU country. All drivers have to prove they rested x hours if they have done y kilometers. Any company violating this will be charged. Also consider that Argentina North to South is well over 3000km which would be equivalent to a trip between Estonia and Greece.
    - timwaagh 7y ago
      The thing about the tacho is true. On my trip from NL to Austria all of us had to get out so the driver could take rest at some point. This particular regulation doesn't force bus companies to just double the labor cost, though.
  - mrleinad 7y ago
    Problem is not just one trip, and you're right, economy is going down the drain here. Problem is that those drivers take as much work as they can because they can't make ends meet after they collect wages. So they put extra hours to get more money. Remove a second driver, and you have a sleep deprived driver taking double or triple shifts just to collect an extra coin.
    - timwaagh 7y ago
      I don't doubt it. Hopefully the damage will be limited. Maybe better wages are possible when things get better. Not many people can sleep on a bus though. having two sleep deprived drivers might not be that much better than one.
      - mrleinad 7y ago
        We don't need two sleep deprived drivers, that was just another way to mitigate the problem. We need companies to pay drivers enough so they can do their job and go to sleep before taking the next shift.
      - mrleinad 7y ago
        https://www.clarin.com/sociedad/pequena-trampa-legal-habilita-reducir-descanso-choferes_0_fH6jddm6.html https://www.clarin.com/sociedad/pequena-trampa-legal-habilit...
  - QuanticSausage 7y ago
    Yeah, I bet you think that the economy problem in Argentina will get better cutting costs. The real problem, however, is the job culture here, if not the overall culture.
    - mrleinad 7y ago
      Saying it's due to culture it's like saying no one is to blame and there's no way to change this in the short term. No, it's not culture. The problem is the finantial and economical decisions taken by the government in the past 4 years. Hopefully these will be reverted by the next administration.

mrleinad 7y ago

This source, who asked to reserve his name, was eloquent: “Outside the high season is one thing, but within the season, employers, to increase their profitability, force workers not to respect their hours of rest. The driver should say so, yes, but if you have your source of work at stake… ” (link in spanish) https://www.clarin.com/sociedad/pequena-trampa-legal-habilita-reducir-descanso-choferes_0_fH6jddm6.html https://www.clarin.com/sociedad/pequena-trampa-legal-habilit...