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Kind of amusing that this idea is posted here on Hacker News, the center of people seeking jobs and companies that are the definition of growth. If you didn’t

Kind of amusing that this idea is posted here on Hacker News, the center of people seeking jobs and companies that are the definition of growth. If you didn’t have growth, you’d all be waiting for your promotion at the power plant when someone dies and frees up a position for you.

abyssin 7y ago
What makes it amusing is the assumption that people's thoughts should be consistent with their behaviour. Being interested in growth could be a consequence of being interested in material safety. This last concern is perfectly consistent with reducing energy consumption, given climate change is a threat to material safety.
- koheripbal 7y ago
  ... and more generally, players in a game can play by the existing rules, while still advocating a change to the rules.
gadders 7y ago
Growth is a synonym for progress.
- cf141q5325 7y ago
  Progress, as in "your cancer progressed to stage 4". Growth can have downsides, be it what is growing or the costs of growth.
ckastner 7y ago
> Kind of amusing that this idea is posted here on Hacker News, the center of people seeking jobs and companies that are the definition of growth. But that's the good kind of growth, you see? I'm being sarcastic, of course. The ironic (and to me: annoying) thing about the really vocal moralists is that the concept of self-reflection seems to be entirely foreign to them. The problem is always with other people, and those other people just need to change, no matter at what cost.
- seirl 7y ago
  It is the good kind of growth, the dematerialization of the economy is a major factor in the lower energy elasticity in developed countries...
  - mrpopo 7y ago
    It's absolutely not obvious whether digital technologies reduce energy consumption globally. E-mail reduced the amount of letters, but Amazon increased the amount of packages. Over-the-air TV broadcasts consumed way less energy than FHD personalized YouTube streams. Americans own more than 20 electronic products per household. etc.
  - ckastner 7y ago
    What dematerialization? Facebook's entire business model is advertising, in other words: getting you to buy things. It used to be Google's and Amazon's entire business model, too, until they diversified into cloud services. It's the exact opposite of dematerialization. Edit: To clarify, I'm not at all against these things. On the contrary. My point is that among those people most vocal in demanding (sometimes radical) change from others, I frequently see a complete lack of self-reflection.
    - tonyedgecombe 7y ago
      It doesn't really matter whether the people calling for radical change are hypocrites or not. That has no material affect on whether there really is a need for radical change. It does make them rather annoying and gives those resistant to change something to criticise them over but it doesn't alter the facts of the situation.
      - ckastner 7y ago
        It affects the discussion of the situation and, by extension, the politics surrounding it, and thereby ultimately the one force that might actually effect the necessary change.
- 7y ago
lm28469 7y ago
> the center of people seeking jobs and companies that are the definition of growth I discussed in many threads closely or loosely related to this topic and many HNers don't share this idea. You can be a dev in any kind of company and hold any type of beliefs. Outside of SV and a few other places being a dev isn't that crazy money/career growth wise.
ryanmercer 7y ago
> you’d all be waiting for your promotion at the power plant when someone dies and frees up a position for you. I already am. I've been at my job for 13 and a half years, I"ve moved up exactly 0 times. Someone has to quit/retire, get fired or die to free up positions and even then you only have 2 jumps until you're manager, from there you only move up to senior manager and then you're into corporate level positions. My senior manager has been here for the better part of 30 years and probably has another 15-20 in her at which time she'll almost certainly be replaced by someone from another office in another state as her boss's position was when she retired a few years ago (her direct reports were just given to someone already in a similar position in another state).

abyssin 7y ago

What makes it amusing is the assumption that people's thoughts should be consistent with their behaviour. Being interested in growth could be a consequence of being interested in material safety. This last concern is perfectly consistent with reducing energy consumption, given climate change is a threat to material safety.

koheripbal 7y ago
... and more generally, players in a game can play by the existing rules, while still advocating a change to the rules.

gadders 7y ago

Growth is a synonym for progress.

cf141q5325 7y ago
Progress, as in "your cancer progressed to stage 4". Growth can have downsides, be it what is growing or the costs of growth.

ckastner 7y ago

> Kind of amusing that this idea is posted here on Hacker News, the center of people seeking jobs and companies that are the definition of growth. But that's the good kind of growth, you see? I'm being sarcastic, of course. The ironic (and to me: annoying) thing about the really vocal moralists is that the concept of self-reflection seems to be entirely foreign to them. The problem is always with other people, and those other people just need to change, no matter at what cost.

seirl 7y ago
It is the good kind of growth, the dematerialization of the economy is a major factor in the lower energy elasticity in developed countries...
- mrpopo 7y ago
  It's absolutely not obvious whether digital technologies reduce energy consumption globally. E-mail reduced the amount of letters, but Amazon increased the amount of packages. Over-the-air TV broadcasts consumed way less energy than FHD personalized YouTube streams. Americans own more than 20 electronic products per household. etc.
- ckastner 7y ago
  What dematerialization? Facebook's entire business model is advertising, in other words: getting you to buy things. It used to be Google's and Amazon's entire business model, too, until they diversified into cloud services. It's the exact opposite of dematerialization. Edit: To clarify, I'm not at all against these things. On the contrary. My point is that among those people most vocal in demanding (sometimes radical) change from others, I frequently see a complete lack of self-reflection.
  - tonyedgecombe 7y ago
    It doesn't really matter whether the people calling for radical change are hypocrites or not. That has no material affect on whether there really is a need for radical change. It does make them rather annoying and gives those resistant to change something to criticise them over but it doesn't alter the facts of the situation.
    - ckastner 7y ago
      It affects the discussion of the situation and, by extension, the politics surrounding it, and thereby ultimately the one force that might actually effect the necessary change.
7y ago

lm28469 7y ago

> the center of people seeking jobs and companies that are the definition of growth I discussed in many threads closely or loosely related to this topic and many HNers don't share this idea. You can be a dev in any kind of company and hold any type of beliefs. Outside of SV and a few other places being a dev isn't that crazy money/career growth wise.

ryanmercer 7y ago

> you’d all be waiting for your promotion at the power plant when someone dies and frees up a position for you. I already am. I've been at my job for 13 and a half years, I"ve moved up exactly 0 times. Someone has to quit/retire, get fired or die to free up positions and even then you only have 2 jumps until you're manager, from there you only move up to senior manager and then you're into corporate level positions. My senior manager has been here for the better part of 30 years and probably has another 15-20 in her at which time she'll almost certainly be replaced by someone from another office in another state as her boss's position was when she retired a few years ago (her direct reports were just given to someone already in a similar position in another state).