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There is also a distinction between logical and quantitative thinking. Some people operate mainly out of a "whether or not" mindset, and they are not inclined t

There is also a distinction between logical and quantitative thinking. Some people operate mainly out of a "whether or not" mindset, and they are not inclined to think in terms of "how much", "to what degree", or "how likely". Scientists tend to be quantitative thinkers, although computer scientists are quite often logical thinkers.

stareatgoats 7y ago
Agree in principle, but I have an issue with your use of the terms "logical/quantitative". A pedantic nitpick to be sure, but the "logical" mindset you describe is one of the most prevalent logical fallacies, that of the "false dilemma" [0]. Maybe there are even better ways to describe it than as a logical fallacy, but calling it "logical thinking" leads down the wrong track IMO. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma
- mjburgess 7y ago
  He did not claim they were exclusive. Your comment is an example of the fallacy fallacy.
  - stareatgoats 7y ago
    Maybe so but I struggle to understand how, I must admit. In case you would care to elaborate I would be interested. But unless you will argue that "logical thinking" is the correct term in this case I will submit that you have delivered a faulty argument yourself (since you invalidate my whole comment and not just the relevant part). Not sure which logical fallacy that represents though ...
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - bananamerica 7y ago
    The "fallacy fallacy" is valid for itself, though: > since the fallacy fallacy is itself a fallacy, it cannot be used to label an argument's conclusion as false without committing it in the process. "You have used the fallacy fallacy, therefore you are wrong" https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Fallacy_fallacy https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Fallacy_fallacy
- kdmccormick 7y ago
  Maybe "black and white thinking" is what's being described.
  - TeMPOraL 7y ago
    That's even worse. I know GGP wrote about "computer scientists", but I've seen similar things spoken (even here) about software engineers - that they have "binary thinking", they "reason in ones and zeros", etc. Which infuriates me to no end, because it's hard for me to think of another domain except hard sciences that forces you to think quantitatively, in numbers and orders and probabilities. Excelling in software requires the opposite of "black and white thinking".
    - kdmccormick 7y ago
      Don't worry, I'm with you. I think the stereotype is that Computer Scientists are black and white thinkers, and that's true for some. But a senior software engineer should be skilled at thinking with nuance and considering uncertainties, biases, etc.
bananamerica 7y ago
I think that's imprecise. The opposition here is not between two kinds of reasoning, but between reasoning and persuasion. Furthermore, quantitative thinking is itself logic.
msla 7y ago
Your comment reminded me of how many people think some tools, like IQ testing, are completely worthless because they're imperfect. An IQ score is not the same as intelligence, so it must be 100% unrelated to intelligence, in other words. This is not what's observed, to put it mildly.
eximius 7y ago
Perhaps computer scientists, but software engineering is almost entirely about trade offs, so a software engineer who can't talk in those terms won't succeed at more than basic levels.

stareatgoats 7y ago

Agree in principle, but I have an issue with your use of the terms "logical/quantitative". A pedantic nitpick to be sure, but the "logical" mindset you describe is one of the most prevalent logical fallacies, that of the "false dilemma" [0]. Maybe there are even better ways to describe it than as a logical fallacy, but calling it "logical thinking" leads down the wrong track IMO. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma

mjburgess 7y ago
He did not claim they were exclusive. Your comment is an example of the fallacy fallacy.
- stareatgoats 7y ago
  Maybe so but I struggle to understand how, I must admit. In case you would care to elaborate I would be interested. But unless you will argue that "logical thinking" is the correct term in this case I will submit that you have delivered a faulty argument yourself (since you invalidate my whole comment and not just the relevant part). Not sure which logical fallacy that represents though ...
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- bananamerica 7y ago
  The "fallacy fallacy" is valid for itself, though: > since the fallacy fallacy is itself a fallacy, it cannot be used to label an argument's conclusion as false without committing it in the process. "You have used the fallacy fallacy, therefore you are wrong" https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Fallacy_fallacy https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Fallacy_fallacy
kdmccormick 7y ago
Maybe "black and white thinking" is what's being described.
- TeMPOraL 7y ago
  That's even worse. I know GGP wrote about "computer scientists", but I've seen similar things spoken (even here) about software engineers - that they have "binary thinking", they "reason in ones and zeros", etc. Which infuriates me to no end, because it's hard for me to think of another domain except hard sciences that forces you to think quantitatively, in numbers and orders and probabilities. Excelling in software requires the opposite of "black and white thinking".
  - kdmccormick 7y ago
    Don't worry, I'm with you. I think the stereotype is that Computer Scientists are black and white thinkers, and that's true for some. But a senior software engineer should be skilled at thinking with nuance and considering uncertainties, biases, etc.

bananamerica 7y ago

I think that's imprecise. The opposition here is not between two kinds of reasoning, but between reasoning and persuasion. Furthermore, quantitative thinking is itself logic.

msla 7y ago

Your comment reminded me of how many people think some tools, like IQ testing, are completely worthless because they're imperfect. An IQ score is not the same as intelligence, so it must be 100% unrelated to intelligence, in other words. This is not what's observed, to put it mildly.

eximius 7y ago

Perhaps computer scientists, but software engineering is almost entirely about trade offs, so a software engineer who can't talk in those terms won't succeed at more than basic levels.