4 ms·

I've lived in Singapore for more than half of my life and met expats there from all walks of life. And I would tell you Singapore is very well integrated with w

I've lived in Singapore for more than half of my life and met expats there from all walks of life. And I would tell you Singapore is very well integrated with western values, both in terms of the cultures and the social-political aspects of many things (other than weed and cocaine, etc; but you can certainly get your hand on some lsd if you know the right contacts). Anyway the point is that Singapore is very westernised and very, very clean in the conservative way - it's like a little Sydney without all the underground and neo-liberalism - and that's why the west love it (i.e. in general, especially the Rights - I've not known a self-declared Left that could stand staying in Singapore for more than a week). There is just a tremendous amount of logistics transactions happening everyday there. I've just moved back to China now and I would have to say that China does the opposite of embracing western values. They go with, well, "the Chinese way". https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21602206 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21602206

StreamBright 7y ago
What the western values in this case? This is a legitimate question, not sure why the down votes.
- archibaldJ 7y ago
  why the down votes - karma inflation. Too many people have received enough karma to downvote nowadays, especially people that jump the shark too early.
bkor 7y ago
> And I would tell you Singapore is very well integrated with western values [..] > I've not known a self-declared Left that could stand staying in Singapore for more than a week Weird combination of statements. It gives the impression (though you probably mean something different that anyone not liking it is 1) "left" 2) not part of Western values Left vs right is pretty useless distinction anyway. Someone who is considered "left" in US is IMO very much "right" in Netherlands. Plus some parties on the right or left differ greatly on how they see things. E.g. not every "left" party will align with what someone agrees with; else there wouldn't be multiple parties. Those parties differ more greatly than "a little bit left" vs "a lot left" (with some exceptions). Further, I reject the notion that someone who is left wouldn't be able to stand staying in Singapore for more than a week. Though biggest problem is that after a week there's not much to do (for anyone reading along, all the Singaporean colleagues completely agree with me on this!) :-P
- archibaldJ 7y ago
  Yeah I guess I had mistakenly used left vs right as a synonym for the more liberal-ish vs the more conservative-ish and that is indeed probably an oversimplification. Anyway I was talking more about the "liveable" aspects of Singapore. Maybe not a week as a tourist but say living longer than a month there. The night life is pretty boring, the underground scene had dissipated in the 2000s and the art scene is not at all vibrant (though things are gradually improving). I would say it doesn't enjoy lots of things liberal-ish cities (like Berlin, NY, etc) enjoy. But there is stability and comfort. It's just that people that is more liberal-ish would ultimately leave the country and live overseas, or if circumstances allow they would start an NGO or something and try to improve things to have more freedom of expressions, more social acceptance for LGBT, etc. But ultimately it is a very conservative place with things like homophobia and an embedded racism. And that's the point I'm trying to make.
- jtms 7y ago
  +1 to the “nothing to do after a week” - it does get quite dull very fast. At least the food is amazing. Changi airport was my favorite part of Singapore for the weekend getaways
archibaldJ 7y ago
I love how this comment received a few upvotes in the beginning and there came the downvotes. HN as I've known it have certainly changed to be more reddit-like now.
- diveanon 7y ago
  What point are you trying to make?
  - archibaldJ 7y ago
    karma inflation.
diveanon 7y ago
Are you gay? Because that is illegal in Singapore. Seems very modern and forward thinking to me to make an entire lifestyle punishible by law. Singapore attracts people like you, who are willing to overlook the glaring injustice because it is "clean and conservative". Wake up.
- archibaldJ 7y ago
  Dude. You jumped the shark too early there. (People behaving like you is the exact reason why HN is becoming more like reddit nowadays.) You can read my comment in response to bkor's. In no way I was trying to glorify Singapore or the authoritarian nature of things. I actually left Singapore and moved back to China because there are more acceptance and appreciation for liberalism in China than Singapore. And more grey areas to navigate around too. And I'm one of those people that believe in making a difference in China. Making a difference in Singapore is much harder and requires more resources. I have a few friends that tried to run some form of NGO in Singapore. One of them did a project called Make It Share It (https://www.facebook.com/makeitshareit2017/ https://www.facebook.com/makeitshareit2017/) to promote art and freedom of expression. The Project closed down a year plus later due to lack of funding because it was entirely self-funded and they didn't give too much thoughts on the self-sustainability part. I would say it did manage to bring some positive impact to the society a lil but in a very limited way. Afterwards the founders left Singapore and now they got settled down in Berlin.

StreamBright 7y ago

What the western values in this case? This is a legitimate question, not sure why the down votes.

archibaldJ 7y ago
why the down votes - karma inflation. Too many people have received enough karma to downvote nowadays, especially people that jump the shark too early.

bkor 7y ago

> And I would tell you Singapore is very well integrated with western values [..] > I've not known a self-declared Left that could stand staying in Singapore for more than a week Weird combination of statements. It gives the impression (though you probably mean something different that anyone not liking it is 1) "left" 2) not part of Western values Left vs right is pretty useless distinction anyway. Someone who is considered "left" in US is IMO very much "right" in Netherlands. Plus some parties on the right or left differ greatly on how they see things. E.g. not every "left" party will align with what someone agrees with; else there wouldn't be multiple parties. Those parties differ more greatly than "a little bit left" vs "a lot left" (with some exceptions). Further, I reject the notion that someone who is left wouldn't be able to stand staying in Singapore for more than a week. Though biggest problem is that after a week there's not much to do (for anyone reading along, all the Singaporean colleagues completely agree with me on this!) :-P

archibaldJ 7y ago
Yeah I guess I had mistakenly used left vs right as a synonym for the more liberal-ish vs the more conservative-ish and that is indeed probably an oversimplification. Anyway I was talking more about the "liveable" aspects of Singapore. Maybe not a week as a tourist but say living longer than a month there. The night life is pretty boring, the underground scene had dissipated in the 2000s and the art scene is not at all vibrant (though things are gradually improving). I would say it doesn't enjoy lots of things liberal-ish cities (like Berlin, NY, etc) enjoy. But there is stability and comfort. It's just that people that is more liberal-ish would ultimately leave the country and live overseas, or if circumstances allow they would start an NGO or something and try to improve things to have more freedom of expressions, more social acceptance for LGBT, etc. But ultimately it is a very conservative place with things like homophobia and an embedded racism. And that's the point I'm trying to make.
jtms 7y ago
+1 to the “nothing to do after a week” - it does get quite dull very fast. At least the food is amazing. Changi airport was my favorite part of Singapore for the weekend getaways

archibaldJ 7y ago

I love how this comment received a few upvotes in the beginning and there came the downvotes. HN as I've known it have certainly changed to be more reddit-like now.

diveanon 7y ago
What point are you trying to make?
- archibaldJ 7y ago
  karma inflation.

diveanon 7y ago

Are you gay? Because that is illegal in Singapore. Seems very modern and forward thinking to me to make an entire lifestyle punishible by law. Singapore attracts people like you, who are willing to overlook the glaring injustice because it is "clean and conservative". Wake up.

archibaldJ 7y ago
Dude. You jumped the shark too early there. (People behaving like you is the exact reason why HN is becoming more like reddit nowadays.) You can read my comment in response to bkor's. In no way I was trying to glorify Singapore or the authoritarian nature of things. I actually left Singapore and moved back to China because there are more acceptance and appreciation for liberalism in China than Singapore. And more grey areas to navigate around too. And I'm one of those people that believe in making a difference in China. Making a difference in Singapore is much harder and requires more resources. I have a few friends that tried to run some form of NGO in Singapore. One of them did a project called Make It Share It (https://www.facebook.com/makeitshareit2017/ https://www.facebook.com/makeitshareit2017/) to promote art and freedom of expression. The Project closed down a year plus later due to lack of funding because it was entirely self-funded and they didn't give too much thoughts on the self-sustainability part. I would say it did manage to bring some positive impact to the society a lil but in a very limited way. Afterwards the founders left Singapore and now they got settled down in Berlin.