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I once got an offer to teach a yoga and meditation class at a company. The stated goal was to give employees tools to handle stress better. I pointed out that

I once got an offer to teach a yoga and meditation class at a company. The stated goal was to give employees tools to handle stress better. I pointed out that the result of mindfulness would most likely be that people would see how harmful a stressful environment Is and either try to change it or to avoid it. Never heard back :) The same happened with yoga. We picked a very small part of the tradition as in asana and removed most of the spiritual aspects. Almost nobody teaches pranayama or meditation in any meaningful way. It’s basically a different form of aerobics or calisthenics.

thrwe4234safd 7y ago
Hehe. This is what I basically wondered when someone told me that mindfullness was helping her cope with pressure of work life. The new decolonization movement in India has been thinking quite deeply about this and other developments where Indian traditional knowledge is taken to the US and then copyrighted, patented and trademarked, and then sold around the world, incl. India. Amusingly, with American marketing being so brilliant, Indian knowledge has in recent history become far more popular once it was "U-turned" in this way. Lots of interesting work being done. Interestingly, you can also see similar developments as those done to appropriate non-Western mathematical/scientific knowledge in the centuries prior within Europe. Yoga, and Mindfullness are en course to being de-rooted and turned into Western inventions, by rewriting histories or by silencing them. SOAS for instance has one guy who was anointed a Mahant, and he writes books with another guy who says Yoga is a cynical rebranding of Swedish exercises. It's all very very curious. I suppose, if a foreigner flatters an Indian, he'll give you every bit of wealth he has (and then cry foul later). Hehe.
- soul4krsna 7y ago
  I hope that Krsna has special karma for people who keep thinking they are independent and rulers of nature. I cant wait for that day so I can laugh while I do real yoga for this age of Kali. America will also have its day of reckoning. And to bust your bubble, they will never be able to silence or rewrite history. UK has tried and continues to fail. The people who know the real truth just have too much bliss enjoying reality than trying to convince the dull masses otherwise. Everyone today believes they are so great and smart because of the tiny advancements in manipulating nature that no matter what presentation is done in whatever language, no one is listening because of pride and fear of losing their cherished life paradigms. Posts like this remind me how all I've just said is a waste of time and people are doomed so I just chill in bliss while everyone else is insane worried about death. Hare Krsna!
  - UnpossibleJim 7y ago
    I see you've learned a lot from your studies =) Good luck and may the force be with you.
- mindfulthrow1 7y ago
  “SOAS for instance has one guy who was anointed a Mahant, and he writes books with another guy who says Yoga is a cynical rebranding of Swedish exercises.” I’m assuming you mean James Mallinson. I met him briefly in Jaipur and had been wondering who the white guy with dreadlocks was that I kept seeing around (here in the US it’s considered racist by people of color to wear dreads if you’re not black). To make a long story short, he doesn’t practice yoga, is largely a rich guy that likes the “sadhu lifestyle” (he’s a Baron in the UK), and studies ancient texts in the way a typical white academic would. But I will say for all my skepticism going into it, I read his “Roots of Yoga” and it was great. It’s clear that the practice of yoga is syncretic and means many different things to many different people. We definitely should criticize all the white girls in the west that are using Yoga as a brand for their calisthenics, teaching without knowing anything about pranayama or dhyana. Their style of practice is so far from any Hatha practice I’ve done you can’t even consider it the same thing. Most of those standing postures they do I’ve never encountered from my Hatha teachers. What these white western women are doing is for the most part awful and pretty racist. However, we should be equally skeptical of Hindutva making claims about what Yoga is while ignoring the long, syncretic history and how it grew and exchanged practices with Buddhists, Sufis, Jains, and all sorts of other sects and groups through thousands of years.
  - thrwe4234safd 7y ago
    > However, we should be equally skeptical of Hindutva making claims about what Yoga is while ignoring the long, syncretic history and how it grew and exchanged practices with Buddhists, Sufis, Jains, and all sorts of other sects and groups through thousands of years. Non sequitur - this has never been a point of contention in India. I know this is typical of the press in the English-speaking world (and thus the peoples of these places as a whole), but its hilarious to see "Hindutva" being projected as a "Hinduism is supreme, and everything else must be suppressed" (and now all the propaganda with Nazis/Hitler ... my oh my). Criticisms of "Hindutva" from these sources are so insipid and stupid that they are not even worth acknowledging. (Note - I'd place a large portion of the Indian elite within the English speaking world.)
    - 7y ago
BurningFrog 7y ago
One of my favorite stories/theories is that Yoga isn't ancient and Indian at all. It's an originally Scandinavian thing that got exported to India in the 1800s. https://mereorthodoxy.com/call-danish-gymnastics-yoga-body/ https://mereorthodoxy.com/call-danish-gymnastics-yoga-body/
- sn41 7y ago
  This is a bizarre theory. The Bhagavad Gita, which is quite ancient, describes Yoga in great detail, especially Chapter 6, for example [1]. Not to mention Yoga Sutras of Patanjali [2]. Of course, modern Hatha Yoga might have some new poses. But the practice of Yoga itself is quite old, and has been prevalent in India for a long time. (I am not commenting on place of origin, since I am not an expert.) [1] https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/gita/bg06.htm https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/gita/bg06.htm [2] https://sacred-texts.com/hin/yogasutr.htm https://sacred-texts.com/hin/yogasutr.htm
  - vidarh 7y ago
    Note that the article is not arguing that yoga isn't ancient at all, but that yoga in the form "exported" to the west refers to a practice that is a distinct form of physical exercise that really is separate from traditional yoga, and that the new form borrows a lot from Scandinavian gymnastics. It's not saying there aren't physical aspects to traditional yoga either, just that the physical practices of traditional yoga didn't fit the needs of the people who pushed the "new" poses.
- mindfulthrow1 7y ago
  Mark Singleton wrote that everyone misunderstood his argument. It’s not that Yoga is Scandinavian, it’s that a bunch of modern asana isn’t all that old. Because westerners really only have encountered the Krishnamacharya (through Iyenger and Jois) and Ghosh (through Bikram) practices, they think of yoga as a whole to be only asana, and always including the standing postures. Some of those standing postures look like western gymnastic practices. Asana is only one specific part of the entire practice. It’s a good beginning point. But it’s also very clear from texts like Hatha Yoga Pradipika, Vasistha Samhita, Patanjali Yoga Sutras, Vajrayana Buddhist yoga texts, and others that yoga definitely isn’t a Scandinavian invention.
peterwwillis 7y ago
The asanas are a good gateway drug, if the teacher constantly reinforces the student to listen to what their body is saying and understand it better. It leads to realizations of a deeper sense of self, and that awakening can lead to interest in the other aspects of yoga.
- Ididntdothis 7y ago
  “that awakening can lead to interest in the other aspects of yoga.” The problem is that the number of teachers who have knowledge of these aspects is very small. Close to zero from my observations.
thatfrenchguy 7y ago
A typical American thing: having a structural problem with how companies are structured (too stressful, useless deadlines, not enough down time), and instead of collectively fixing the problem, focusing on technical individual solutions that are supposed to help you cope. Tech companies are impressive at this. You see the same shit in healthcare with a ton of supposed innovations that don’t go to the core of why the system is broken.
- andrekandre 7y ago
  > You see the same shit in healthcare with a ton of supposed innovations that don’t go to the core of why the system is broken. well, i guess that’s why it’s done: fixing the core of things is hard and requires concentrated energy to fix, which would you choose if you were ‘just another component’ in the system? and those at the top are the beneficiaries, so they have even less incentive to fix core issues (until they become life/wellbeing threatening that is, and then even, it’s probably too late...)

thrwe4234safd 7y ago

Hehe. This is what I basically wondered when someone told me that mindfullness was helping her cope with pressure of work life. The new decolonization movement in India has been thinking quite deeply about this and other developments where Indian traditional knowledge is taken to the US and then copyrighted, patented and trademarked, and then sold around the world, incl. India. Amusingly, with American marketing being so brilliant, Indian knowledge has in recent history become far more popular once it was "U-turned" in this way. Lots of interesting work being done. Interestingly, you can also see similar developments as those done to appropriate non-Western mathematical/scientific knowledge in the centuries prior within Europe. Yoga, and Mindfullness are en course to being de-rooted and turned into Western inventions, by rewriting histories or by silencing them. SOAS for instance has one guy who was anointed a Mahant, and he writes books with another guy who says Yoga is a cynical rebranding of Swedish exercises. It's all very very curious. I suppose, if a foreigner flatters an Indian, he'll give you every bit of wealth he has (and then cry foul later). Hehe.

soul4krsna 7y ago
I hope that Krsna has special karma for people who keep thinking they are independent and rulers of nature. I cant wait for that day so I can laugh while I do real yoga for this age of Kali. America will also have its day of reckoning. And to bust your bubble, they will never be able to silence or rewrite history. UK has tried and continues to fail. The people who know the real truth just have too much bliss enjoying reality than trying to convince the dull masses otherwise. Everyone today believes they are so great and smart because of the tiny advancements in manipulating nature that no matter what presentation is done in whatever language, no one is listening because of pride and fear of losing their cherished life paradigms. Posts like this remind me how all I've just said is a waste of time and people are doomed so I just chill in bliss while everyone else is insane worried about death. Hare Krsna!
- UnpossibleJim 7y ago
  I see you've learned a lot from your studies =) Good luck and may the force be with you.
mindfulthrow1 7y ago
“SOAS for instance has one guy who was anointed a Mahant, and he writes books with another guy who says Yoga is a cynical rebranding of Swedish exercises.” I’m assuming you mean James Mallinson. I met him briefly in Jaipur and had been wondering who the white guy with dreadlocks was that I kept seeing around (here in the US it’s considered racist by people of color to wear dreads if you’re not black). To make a long story short, he doesn’t practice yoga, is largely a rich guy that likes the “sadhu lifestyle” (he’s a Baron in the UK), and studies ancient texts in the way a typical white academic would. But I will say for all my skepticism going into it, I read his “Roots of Yoga” and it was great. It’s clear that the practice of yoga is syncretic and means many different things to many different people. We definitely should criticize all the white girls in the west that are using Yoga as a brand for their calisthenics, teaching without knowing anything about pranayama or dhyana. Their style of practice is so far from any Hatha practice I’ve done you can’t even consider it the same thing. Most of those standing postures they do I’ve never encountered from my Hatha teachers. What these white western women are doing is for the most part awful and pretty racist. However, we should be equally skeptical of Hindutva making claims about what Yoga is while ignoring the long, syncretic history and how it grew and exchanged practices with Buddhists, Sufis, Jains, and all sorts of other sects and groups through thousands of years.
- thrwe4234safd 7y ago
  > However, we should be equally skeptical of Hindutva making claims about what Yoga is while ignoring the long, syncretic history and how it grew and exchanged practices with Buddhists, Sufis, Jains, and all sorts of other sects and groups through thousands of years. Non sequitur - this has never been a point of contention in India. I know this is typical of the press in the English-speaking world (and thus the peoples of these places as a whole), but its hilarious to see "Hindutva" being projected as a "Hinduism is supreme, and everything else must be suppressed" (and now all the propaganda with Nazis/Hitler ... my oh my). Criticisms of "Hindutva" from these sources are so insipid and stupid that they are not even worth acknowledging. (Note - I'd place a large portion of the Indian elite within the English speaking world.)
  - 7y ago

BurningFrog 7y ago

One of my favorite stories/theories is that Yoga isn't ancient and Indian at all. It's an originally Scandinavian thing that got exported to India in the 1800s. https://mereorthodoxy.com/call-danish-gymnastics-yoga-body/ https://mereorthodoxy.com/call-danish-gymnastics-yoga-body/

sn41 7y ago
This is a bizarre theory. The Bhagavad Gita, which is quite ancient, describes Yoga in great detail, especially Chapter 6, for example [1]. Not to mention Yoga Sutras of Patanjali [2]. Of course, modern Hatha Yoga might have some new poses. But the practice of Yoga itself is quite old, and has been prevalent in India for a long time. (I am not commenting on place of origin, since I am not an expert.) [1] https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/gita/bg06.htm https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/gita/bg06.htm [2] https://sacred-texts.com/hin/yogasutr.htm https://sacred-texts.com/hin/yogasutr.htm
- vidarh 7y ago
  Note that the article is not arguing that yoga isn't ancient at all, but that yoga in the form "exported" to the west refers to a practice that is a distinct form of physical exercise that really is separate from traditional yoga, and that the new form borrows a lot from Scandinavian gymnastics. It's not saying there aren't physical aspects to traditional yoga either, just that the physical practices of traditional yoga didn't fit the needs of the people who pushed the "new" poses.
mindfulthrow1 7y ago
Mark Singleton wrote that everyone misunderstood his argument. It’s not that Yoga is Scandinavian, it’s that a bunch of modern asana isn’t all that old. Because westerners really only have encountered the Krishnamacharya (through Iyenger and Jois) and Ghosh (through Bikram) practices, they think of yoga as a whole to be only asana, and always including the standing postures. Some of those standing postures look like western gymnastic practices. Asana is only one specific part of the entire practice. It’s a good beginning point. But it’s also very clear from texts like Hatha Yoga Pradipika, Vasistha Samhita, Patanjali Yoga Sutras, Vajrayana Buddhist yoga texts, and others that yoga definitely isn’t a Scandinavian invention.

peterwwillis 7y ago

The asanas are a good gateway drug, if the teacher constantly reinforces the student to listen to what their body is saying and understand it better. It leads to realizations of a deeper sense of self, and that awakening can lead to interest in the other aspects of yoga.

Ididntdothis 7y ago
“that awakening can lead to interest in the other aspects of yoga.” The problem is that the number of teachers who have knowledge of these aspects is very small. Close to zero from my observations.

thatfrenchguy 7y ago

A typical American thing: having a structural problem with how companies are structured (too stressful, useless deadlines, not enough down time), and instead of collectively fixing the problem, focusing on technical individual solutions that are supposed to help you cope. Tech companies are impressive at this. You see the same shit in healthcare with a ton of supposed innovations that don’t go to the core of why the system is broken.

andrekandre 7y ago
> You see the same shit in healthcare with a ton of supposed innovations that don’t go to the core of why the system is broken. well, i guess that’s why it’s done: fixing the core of things is hard and requires concentrated energy to fix, which would you choose if you were ‘just another component’ in the system? and those at the top are the beneficiaries, so they have even less incentive to fix core issues (until they become life/wellbeing threatening that is, and then even, it’s probably too late...)