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Another similar project in the mojave desert incinerates 6000 birds a year [1]. I wonder, how they handle that.. [1] https://www.sciencealert.com/this-solar-pl

Another similar project in the mojave desert incinerates 6000 birds a year [1]. I wonder, how they handle that.. [1] https://www.sciencealert.com/this-solar-plant-accidentally-incinerates-up-to-6-000-birds-a-year https://www.sciencealert.com/this-solar-plant-accidentally-i...

BurnGpuBurn 7y ago
I was just wondering how many birds this would fry, thanks for the article.
- VBprogrammer 7y ago
  The problem is generally trivial compared to the number killed by domestic cats and glass windows.
  - ygra 7y ago
    For wind turbines at least there's a bit of a difference, as those kill larger birds than cats, in smaller numbers, but those birds also have smaller populations. So just looking at the numbers without knowing the birds and their total populations, makes things hard to compare or judge.
    - VBprogrammer 7y ago
      Sure, thought needs to go into the location of these things; avoiding migration routes and habitats of endangered birds. Using scarecrows and possible trained predator birds (presuming these can be trained to avoid the danger zone!) etc. Of course conventional industry doesn't get a free pass here either, treatment and storage ponds, climate change, habitat destruction etc.
    - usrusr 7y ago
      But aren't most larger birds predators that are highly habitat/food supply constrained? That kind of population could be quite resilient to moderate increases in mortality. (I might be assigning far more importance to predator-Peru cycles than is warranted though, I was reading about what I now found is called https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotka%E2%80%93Volterra_equations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotka%E2%80%93Volterra_equatio... at a very young age and the concept stuck for life)
kwhitefoot 7y ago
Is 6000 birds a year a lot? It's a serious question, I have no idea what fraction of birds in the area that is. Is it comparable to the normal fluctuation in bird mortality in the area or is it so large that it has a disturbing effect on the population? Of course fewer bird deaths would be good, and zero would be better. But these bird deaths are noticed because of where they occur. What is the 'background' level, the death rate in the same place without the solar plant? The Ivanpah installation is on a known migration route, presumably most other such installations will cause fewer bird deaths simply by not being on such a heavily used route. The article was a bit light on background information and I don't know how to find it.
- giarc 7y ago
  I recall seeing a chart one day that showed bird deaths by source. Death by domestic cats were magnitudes higher than any other source.
  - newnewpdro 7y ago
    The Mojave desert wilderness areas are not overrun with domestic cats. 6000 sounds like a lot to me. I have five acres near joshua tree, and while there is wild life the only stuff that seems to be abundant are some rodents, rabbits, and reptiles. It's a fragile ecosystem. There used to be tortoises supposedly, but the roads wiped them out.
    - giarc 7y ago
      The devils advocate view is that climate change will kill them all, so what's really that bad about 6000 birds?
      - newnewpdro 7y ago
        It's not like this is the only method for harnessing the sun's energy. PV fields for example don't cook the local fauna.

BurnGpuBurn 7y ago

I was just wondering how many birds this would fry, thanks for the article.

VBprogrammer 7y ago
The problem is generally trivial compared to the number killed by domestic cats and glass windows.
- ygra 7y ago
  For wind turbines at least there's a bit of a difference, as those kill larger birds than cats, in smaller numbers, but those birds also have smaller populations. So just looking at the numbers without knowing the birds and their total populations, makes things hard to compare or judge.
  - VBprogrammer 7y ago
    Sure, thought needs to go into the location of these things; avoiding migration routes and habitats of endangered birds. Using scarecrows and possible trained predator birds (presuming these can be trained to avoid the danger zone!) etc. Of course conventional industry doesn't get a free pass here either, treatment and storage ponds, climate change, habitat destruction etc.
  - usrusr 7y ago
    But aren't most larger birds predators that are highly habitat/food supply constrained? That kind of population could be quite resilient to moderate increases in mortality. (I might be assigning far more importance to predator-Peru cycles than is warranted though, I was reading about what I now found is called https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotka%E2%80%93Volterra_equations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotka%E2%80%93Volterra_equatio... at a very young age and the concept stuck for life)

kwhitefoot 7y ago

Is 6000 birds a year a lot? It's a serious question, I have no idea what fraction of birds in the area that is. Is it comparable to the normal fluctuation in bird mortality in the area or is it so large that it has a disturbing effect on the population? Of course fewer bird deaths would be good, and zero would be better. But these bird deaths are noticed because of where they occur. What is the 'background' level, the death rate in the same place without the solar plant? The Ivanpah installation is on a known migration route, presumably most other such installations will cause fewer bird deaths simply by not being on such a heavily used route. The article was a bit light on background information and I don't know how to find it.

giarc 7y ago
I recall seeing a chart one day that showed bird deaths by source. Death by domestic cats were magnitudes higher than any other source.
- newnewpdro 7y ago
  The Mojave desert wilderness areas are not overrun with domestic cats. 6000 sounds like a lot to me. I have five acres near joshua tree, and while there is wild life the only stuff that seems to be abundant are some rodents, rabbits, and reptiles. It's a fragile ecosystem. There used to be tortoises supposedly, but the roads wiped them out.
  - giarc 7y ago
    The devils advocate view is that climate change will kill them all, so what's really that bad about 6000 birds?
    - newnewpdro 7y ago
      It's not like this is the only method for harnessing the sun's energy. PV fields for example don't cook the local fauna.