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Do you really think the web developpers that use advanced dev tools can make a real difference in their market share? (real question)

albertgoeswoof 7y ago
It happens because applications will stop working on chrome if developers never test on it. The recommendation when a user hits a bug will be to check it in Firefox and slowly Firefox will become the reliable/advanced/working option. It’s happened with IE, Chrome before and will swing back away from Chrome eventually.
- laumars 7y ago
  IE was stagnant and shit, Chrome isn't. I may not like the Chrome monoculture happening at the moment but that doesn't mean Chrome is the same dumpster fire that was IE. And Google are hardly going to let Chrome stagnate when Chrome is the perfect vehicle to local users into Google's non-free ecosystem (I say "non-free" because you pay with your privacy)
  - wizzwizz4 7y ago
    You don't just pay with your privacy. It's not a one-way street. Google's knowledge about you feeds back to you, as they attempt to manipulate you in the way that best increases the money they receive from their advertisers. But if we want people to stop being locked into Chrome, the best way is to cease to support it. If stuff works in Chrome, that'll be because Chrome supports web standards properly, and not because there's some proprietary random Google standard-they-just-came-up-with that it relies on. (I'm looking at you, <portal>.) Don't contribute code to Chromium; instead, contribute it to a popular fork (like ungoogled-chromium), or a different browser altogether. Until Chromium is a less-centralised project, you're pretty much just giving a competitive edge to Chrome, and hence Google's near-monopoly on the web, without Google having to put in the resources to do it themselves. You're working for Google for nothing.
realusername 7y ago
Not necessary but they are the ones which develop websites. I use Firefox daily for my job and that ensures that whatever I build will have a 100% Firefox compatibility.
lovasoa 7y ago
They might, indirectly. If web developers use chrome as their main browser, they test their sites on chrome more, and in the end websites just work better in chrome. And this is what can make a difference in their market share.
bad_user 7y ago
Developers in general are very influential. Not only among our family and friends, but also because our choices create a lock-in effect due to the nature of our work. When you use Chrome day in and out, your work is going to be optimized for Chrome and will work best on Chrome. This led to a Chrome-optimized web and while Google isn't necessarily to blame, we're back to the days of "works best in IExplorer 6". Companies and products that attract developers will eventually attract regular people as well. You could say that this is a chicken and egg problem, developers following the users, but with few exceptions (like the iPhone) in my experience thus far it's usually the developers that come first. --- It's worth mentioning that Chrome isn't popular only because of its technical excellence, but also because of Google's incessant marketing and bundling. But if we remember Microsoft and their declining browser market share, marketing and shoving your products down people's throats isn't enough. The product, especially if it's a platform, has to not suck and to be used by developers as well. So yes, if other browsers like Firefox want to stay relevant and grow, a major requirement is to provide excellent developer tools. Kudos to Mozilla for understanding that.
- mrmonkeyman 7y ago
  Influential? Please..
- scarface74 7y ago
  Developers and computer geeks have been overestimating their influence for over a decade. If geeks were influential, the “year of the Linux desktop” would have been years ago, no one would be on Facebook, and people wouldn’t buy into Apple’s wall garden and people would care about “freedom”. Definitely no one would have bought the iPod since it “had less space than the Nomad and no wireless”. (https://slashdot.org/story/01/10/23/1816257/apple-releases-ipod https://slashdot.org/story/01/10/23/1816257/apple-releases-i...) The consumerization of technology happened a long time ago.
  - andybak 7y ago
    > Developers and computer geeks have been overestimating their influence for over a decade. I It's a lot easier to get people to switch browsers than OSs.

albertgoeswoof 7y ago

It happens because applications will stop working on chrome if developers never test on it. The recommendation when a user hits a bug will be to check it in Firefox and slowly Firefox will become the reliable/advanced/working option. It’s happened with IE, Chrome before and will swing back away from Chrome eventually.

laumars 7y ago
IE was stagnant and shit, Chrome isn't. I may not like the Chrome monoculture happening at the moment but that doesn't mean Chrome is the same dumpster fire that was IE. And Google are hardly going to let Chrome stagnate when Chrome is the perfect vehicle to local users into Google's non-free ecosystem (I say "non-free" because you pay with your privacy)
- wizzwizz4 7y ago
  You don't just pay with your privacy. It's not a one-way street. Google's knowledge about you feeds back to you, as they attempt to manipulate you in the way that best increases the money they receive from their advertisers. But if we want people to stop being locked into Chrome, the best way is to cease to support it. If stuff works in Chrome, that'll be because Chrome supports web standards properly, and not because there's some proprietary random Google standard-they-just-came-up-with that it relies on. (I'm looking at you, <portal>.) Don't contribute code to Chromium; instead, contribute it to a popular fork (like ungoogled-chromium), or a different browser altogether. Until Chromium is a less-centralised project, you're pretty much just giving a competitive edge to Chrome, and hence Google's near-monopoly on the web, without Google having to put in the resources to do it themselves. You're working for Google for nothing.

realusername 7y ago

Not necessary but they are the ones which develop websites. I use Firefox daily for my job and that ensures that whatever I build will have a 100% Firefox compatibility.

lovasoa 7y ago

They might, indirectly. If web developers use chrome as their main browser, they test their sites on chrome more, and in the end websites just work better in chrome. And this is what can make a difference in their market share.

bad_user 7y ago

Developers in general are very influential. Not only among our family and friends, but also because our choices create a lock-in effect due to the nature of our work. When you use Chrome day in and out, your work is going to be optimized for Chrome and will work best on Chrome. This led to a Chrome-optimized web and while Google isn't necessarily to blame, we're back to the days of "works best in IExplorer 6". Companies and products that attract developers will eventually attract regular people as well. You could say that this is a chicken and egg problem, developers following the users, but with few exceptions (like the iPhone) in my experience thus far it's usually the developers that come first. --- It's worth mentioning that Chrome isn't popular only because of its technical excellence, but also because of Google's incessant marketing and bundling. But if we remember Microsoft and their declining browser market share, marketing and shoving your products down people's throats isn't enough. The product, especially if it's a platform, has to not suck and to be used by developers as well. So yes, if other browsers like Firefox want to stay relevant and grow, a major requirement is to provide excellent developer tools. Kudos to Mozilla for understanding that.

mrmonkeyman 7y ago
Influential? Please..
scarface74 7y ago
Developers and computer geeks have been overestimating their influence for over a decade. If geeks were influential, the “year of the Linux desktop” would have been years ago, no one would be on Facebook, and people wouldn’t buy into Apple’s wall garden and people would care about “freedom”. Definitely no one would have bought the iPod since it “had less space than the Nomad and no wireless”. (https://slashdot.org/story/01/10/23/1816257/apple-releases-ipod https://slashdot.org/story/01/10/23/1816257/apple-releases-i...) The consumerization of technology happened a long time ago.
- andybak 7y ago
  > Developers and computer geeks have been overestimating their influence for over a decade. I It's a lot easier to get people to switch browsers than OSs.