8 ms·

Why "Download Firefox Nightly for macOS"? Is it not supported on Linux and Windows? Why?

by devit 7y ago

phoe-krk 7y ago
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Projects/WebReplay https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Projects/We... > Currently only macOS is supported. As for why - no idea.
- propelol 7y ago
  It's probably because its cheaper, and most web developers are using macOS anyway
  - la_fayette 7y ago
    Have been working in web development for years, also with many coworkers. I don't know anybody with macOS except design people...
    - hellofunk 7y ago
      That’s interesting, since nearly all of the developers I know working full stack are using a mac. Maybe it’s a regional thing.
    - coldtea 7y ago
      Seen any web conference where a crapload of people (including many/most of the speakers) didn't have a MacBook? So, while it might be far less in the general market share, and even web dev share, it's more in the "kind of developer that goes to conferences/presets/etc" share...
  - jeroenhd 7y ago
    Of all developers I know, only 2 prefer macOS (in general). Most people are either on Windows or their favourite flavour of Linux. These are not just web developers though, they're full stack developers; perhaps pure frontend developers are more prone to use Apple products?
    - coldtea 7y ago
      Go to a Rails conference. Or a Node conference. Heck, even a Java conference. Half the people there have MacBooks, and usually more than half of the speakers. At least far more than Apple's general market share.
      - pluma 7y ago
        Selection bias. People who go to tech conferences make up a tiny share of all the people working in the industry. Plus they're far more likely to look towards other people going to those conferences for "trends" than to the majority who don't, thus reinforcing that bias. Even most designers I know personally don't use macOS. But if I was going by what I see at JS conferences, you'd think Apple has a 99% marketshare (although things have improved in recent years with "full stack" bringing in Linux folks and Microsoft's investment in dev tools making Windows more appealing). This is similar to how everyone at these conferences seems to have one of the latest iPhones yet (depending on where you live) the majority of smartphone users uses Androids and those who are using iPhones generally hold onto them for years before upgrading. Also FWIW as a long time JS dev, it seemed to me like Rails actually was one of the major contributors to the macbook monoculture because Rails (in the early days) was popular with startups who also often focused on iOS apps first, which means they had no other choice than to use macOS for development. As iOS became less of a focus than web dev, the macbooks stayed and only now seem to be slowly replaced as Microsoft is making a heavy push into web dev relations and the opinion of Apple's quality gets tarnished by dev-unfriendly decisions and hardware problems.
        coldtea 7y ago
        >Selection bias. People who go to tech conferences make up a tiny share of all the people working in the industry. Yes, but they're also more influential in the respective communities, and more probable as presenters to be writing stuff others use (e.g. this Firefox dev tool). So they'll use what they personally use to develop. >Also FWIW as a long time JS dev, it seemed to me like Rails actually was one of the major contributors to the macbook monoculture because Rails (in the early days) was popular with startups who also often focused on iOS apps first, which means they had no other choice than to use macOS for development. I don't think that's the case - Rails confs/devs was mostly Macs before iOS apps where a thing (which happened 4-5 years after RoR was released).
  - hu3 7y ago
    https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2019#technology-_-developers-primary-operating-systems https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2019#technology-_-... Windows 47.5% MacOS 26.8% Linux-based 25.6% ---- Total non-Macs: 73.1%
    - konart 7y ago
      >web developers And and in this case web should be read as 'front-end'.
- floatingatoll 7y ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21658967 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21658967 responds to that.
- hoten 7y ago
  Because it's experimental and you have to start somewhere.
pyr0hu 7y ago
I think they are printing out the OS based on your user agent. EDIT: sibling comment cleared things up, so mine is irrelevant
akanet 7y ago
Presumably the implementation is platform dependent and they wish to start with where they believe the most relevant developer mindshare is. I'd guess it's still somewhat tricky for them to playback different replays across platforms.
- xtf 7y ago
  My prejudices about Apple missionaries are no coincidence.
bdibs 7y ago
“Almost all implementation work so far has been on macOS. Windows port work is underway, but is not yet working. The difficulties are in figuring out the set of system library APIs to intercept, in getting the memory management and dirty memory parts of the rewind infrastructure to work, and in handling the different graphics and IPC pathways on different platforms.“ From https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Projects/WebReplay https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Projects/We...
- jillesvangurp 7y ago
  It makes sense to start with OS X. Lots of front-end work is done on that platform. If you are targeting IOS or Safari, you pretty much need to be on OS X for testing.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - lopis 7y ago
    More than Linux? Maybe that's a US thing.
Schlaefer 7y ago
Only macOS is supported right now. Web Replay's architecture should allow it to work on any operating system: the OS features needed are not specific to macOS or to POSIX systems. Still, porting it to other POSIX systems (Linux, Android) will be easier than Windows, due to the overlap with macOS. There is, however, a partial Windows port from an older version of the architecture that can replay a simple page but not rewind, which should make writing a complete Windows port easier. From: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Projects/WebReplayRoadmap https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Projects/We...
artichokeheart 7y ago
Especially as macOS users are the most likely to complain about Firefox's performance. Well, maybe that IS why
dmos62 7y ago
This blew me away a bit. Is MacOS this popular in the Web frontend crowd? I always felt that the price/quality ratio was way off with MacOS, compared to a good regular laptop. By good I mean top 10% ranked by price/quality. Even if it wasn't, Apple's general hostility towards consumers is infuriating. Right-to-repair is a banal example.
- porker 7y ago
  > Is MacOS this popular in the Web frontend crowd? Yes, and seemingly in the web backend crowd too (Ruby, PHP, Python but not as much AFAICT). If you go to a web conference and don't pull out a Mac, you do get comments and/or questions (depending if you're running Windows or Linux). At Python conferences I've seen fewer Macs and more of the good old ThinkPads running Linux. My feeling is that community has a more "Computer sciencey" taste in laptops, because they're not all web programmers.
  - isatty 7y ago
    > My feeling is that community has a more "Computer sciencey" taste in laptops, because they're not all web programmers. Or maybe just because they _can_ be bothered to spend a few days setting up their laptop just right and actively maintain it. I'm a fairly advanced user but I can't be bothered to do so on a laptop and would rather have a Mac to carry around and GNU/Linux on my desktop.
- paulintrognon 7y ago
  Yes it is indeed very popular. All of my friends in IT switched to MacOS over the last few years, and I see more and more devs using Apple devices in web agencies. Because it looks good, it looks more pro.
- rimliu 7y ago
  Last seven years, all the companies I worked at had the majority/all devs using Macs. That's not only frontend, but backend (Java/Scala/PHP) and Android devs. And this was not in the US.
- dutchCourage 7y ago

Why "Download Firefox Nightly for macOS"? Is it not supported on Linux and Windows? Why?

by devit 7y ago

Why "Download Firefox Nightly for macOS"? Is it not supported on Linux and Windows? Why?

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Projects/WebReplay https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Projects/We... > Currently only macOS is supported. As for why - no idea.

propelol 7y ago
It's probably because its cheaper, and most web developers are using macOS anyway
- la_fayette 7y ago
  Have been working in web development for years, also with many coworkers. I don't know anybody with macOS except design people...
  - hellofunk 7y ago
    That’s interesting, since nearly all of the developers I know working full stack are using a mac. Maybe it’s a regional thing.
  - coldtea 7y ago
    Seen any web conference where a crapload of people (including many/most of the speakers) didn't have a MacBook? So, while it might be far less in the general market share, and even web dev share, it's more in the "kind of developer that goes to conferences/presets/etc" share...
- jeroenhd 7y ago
  Of all developers I know, only 2 prefer macOS (in general). Most people are either on Windows or their favourite flavour of Linux. These are not just web developers though, they're full stack developers; perhaps pure frontend developers are more prone to use Apple products?
  - coldtea 7y ago
    Go to a Rails conference. Or a Node conference. Heck, even a Java conference. Half the people there have MacBooks, and usually more than half of the speakers. At least far more than Apple's general market share.
    - pluma 7y ago
      Selection bias. People who go to tech conferences make up a tiny share of all the people working in the industry. Plus they're far more likely to look towards other people going to those conferences for "trends" than to the majority who don't, thus reinforcing that bias. Even most designers I know personally don't use macOS. But if I was going by what I see at JS conferences, you'd think Apple has a 99% marketshare (although things have improved in recent years with "full stack" bringing in Linux folks and Microsoft's investment in dev tools making Windows more appealing). This is similar to how everyone at these conferences seems to have one of the latest iPhones yet (depending on where you live) the majority of smartphone users uses Androids and those who are using iPhones generally hold onto them for years before upgrading. Also FWIW as a long time JS dev, it seemed to me like Rails actually was one of the major contributors to the macbook monoculture because Rails (in the early days) was popular with startups who also often focused on iOS apps first, which means they had no other choice than to use macOS for development. As iOS became less of a focus than web dev, the macbooks stayed and only now seem to be slowly replaced as Microsoft is making a heavy push into web dev relations and the opinion of Apple's quality gets tarnished by dev-unfriendly decisions and hardware problems.
      - coldtea 7y ago
        >Selection bias. People who go to tech conferences make up a tiny share of all the people working in the industry. Yes, but they're also more influential in the respective communities, and more probable as presenters to be writing stuff others use (e.g. this Firefox dev tool). So they'll use what they personally use to develop. >Also FWIW as a long time JS dev, it seemed to me like Rails actually was one of the major contributors to the macbook monoculture because Rails (in the early days) was popular with startups who also often focused on iOS apps first, which means they had no other choice than to use macOS for development. I don't think that's the case - Rails confs/devs was mostly Macs before iOS apps where a thing (which happened 4-5 years after RoR was released).
- hu3 7y ago
  https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2019#technology-_-developers-primary-operating-systems https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2019#technology-_-... Windows 47.5% MacOS 26.8% Linux-based 25.6% ---- Total non-Macs: 73.1%
  - konart 7y ago
    >web developers And and in this case web should be read as 'front-end'.
floatingatoll 7y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21658967 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21658967 responds to that.
hoten 7y ago
Because it's experimental and you have to start somewhere.

pyr0hu 7y ago

I think they are printing out the OS based on your user agent. EDIT: sibling comment cleared things up, so mine is irrelevant

akanet 7y ago

Presumably the implementation is platform dependent and they wish to start with where they believe the most relevant developer mindshare is. I'd guess it's still somewhat tricky for them to playback different replays across platforms.

xtf 7y ago
My prejudices about Apple missionaries are no coincidence.

bdibs 7y ago

“Almost all implementation work so far has been on macOS. Windows port work is underway, but is not yet working. The difficulties are in figuring out the set of system library APIs to intercept, in getting the memory management and dirty memory parts of the rewind infrastructure to work, and in handling the different graphics and IPC pathways on different platforms.“ From https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Projects/WebReplay https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Projects/We...

jillesvangurp 7y ago
It makes sense to start with OS X. Lots of front-end work is done on that platform. If you are targeting IOS or Safari, you pretty much need to be on OS X for testing.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- lopis 7y ago
  More than Linux? Maybe that's a US thing.

Schlaefer 7y ago

Only macOS is supported right now. Web Replay's architecture should allow it to work on any operating system: the OS features needed are not specific to macOS or to POSIX systems. Still, porting it to other POSIX systems (Linux, Android) will be easier than Windows, due to the overlap with macOS. There is, however, a partial Windows port from an older version of the architecture that can replay a simple page but not rewind, which should make writing a complete Windows port easier. From: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Projects/WebReplayRoadmap https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Projects/We...

artichokeheart 7y ago

Especially as macOS users are the most likely to complain about Firefox's performance. Well, maybe that IS why

dmos62 7y ago

This blew me away a bit. Is MacOS this popular in the Web frontend crowd? I always felt that the price/quality ratio was way off with MacOS, compared to a good regular laptop. By good I mean top 10% ranked by price/quality. Even if it wasn't, Apple's general hostility towards consumers is infuriating. Right-to-repair is a banal example.

porker 7y ago
> Is MacOS this popular in the Web frontend crowd? Yes, and seemingly in the web backend crowd too (Ruby, PHP, Python but not as much AFAICT). If you go to a web conference and don't pull out a Mac, you do get comments and/or questions (depending if you're running Windows or Linux). At Python conferences I've seen fewer Macs and more of the good old ThinkPads running Linux. My feeling is that community has a more "Computer sciencey" taste in laptops, because they're not all web programmers.
- isatty 7y ago
  > My feeling is that community has a more "Computer sciencey" taste in laptops, because they're not all web programmers. Or maybe just because they _can_ be bothered to spend a few days setting up their laptop just right and actively maintain it. I'm a fairly advanced user but I can't be bothered to do so on a laptop and would rather have a Mac to carry around and GNU/Linux on my desktop.
paulintrognon 7y ago
Yes it is indeed very popular. All of my friends in IT switched to MacOS over the last few years, and I see more and more devs using Apple devices in web agencies. Because it looks good, it looks more pro.
rimliu 7y ago
Last seven years, all the companies I worked at had the majority/all devs using Macs. That's not only frontend, but backend (Java/Scala/PHP) and Android devs. And this was not in the US.
dutchCourage 7y ago