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The solution probably lies in preventing people from wanting to do so much damage in the first place. The fact that it is such a common occurrence for Americans

The solution probably lies in preventing people from wanting to do so much damage in the first place. The fact that it is such a common occurrence for Americans to want to shoot up schools says a lot.

digi59404 7y ago
As I always say - the gun isn’t the problem. Someone waking up one morning and going “gee I’d like to kill a lot of people today” is the problem. That’s a cultural and mental health issue.
- baroffoos 7y ago
  The gun is still a problem. Its just only half the problem. A mentally ill person with a knife is still bad but an order of magnitude less so.
  - t-writescode 7y ago
    But now all you’ve done is cut off the beaks of the chickens in the farm, so they can’t blind each other, the chicken are still in a very, very bad mental state.
    - baroffoos 7y ago
      Even a fairly healthy society will have a few bad actors. The solution is to provide care for people so the majority do not want to cause harm and then prevent needless ability to cause harm so the occasional crazy person isn't able to do much damage.
  - alacombe 7y ago
    The gun is as much the problem as the truck used in Nice. Killing a lot of people is easy.
    - baroffoos 7y ago
      With the right tools. Arguably unrestricted vehicle access should not be available in densely populated areas. They are basically mass murder machines even with well intentioned drivers.
      - pjkundert 7y ago
        Welp, that shark wasn’t going to jump itself...
      - Reelin 7y ago
        I was about to disagree with your neighboring comment and point out that you were being inconsistent, but it turns out you weren't. I disagree with your worldview in this case, but want to let you know that I respect you for having a well formed and reasonably consistent opinion. I only wish that everyone else who voted took the time to think things through half so thoroughly - the world would likely be a much more functional place.
- tomrod 7y ago
  Can you comment which specific DSM mental disorder diagnosis someone expresses when they wake up one morning and go "gee I'd like to kill a lot of people today"?
  - jcims 7y ago
    I think the point is precisely that there isn’t one today, and if all we ever do is play whack-a-mole with dangerous things we aren’t likely to find one in the near future either.
    - tomrod 7y ago
      I recognize that, which is why I asked the parent commenter to fill in details on their thought. Hopefully they recognize that it isn't a treatable mental disease driving gun violence, and rather reducing access to guns will reduce violent gun death. Arguably anitsocialites could use other means, but only at much higher costs.
- robocat 7y ago
  > the gun isn’t the problem Illogical. Gun ownership is truely a significant part of the problem. Countries with low gun ownership rates have measurably low rates of deaths by guns. Your meme needs to be eradicated. "Among developed nations, the US is far and away the most homicidal — in large part due to the easy access many Americans have to firearms." — https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/10/2/16399418/us-gun-violence-statistics-maps-charts https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/10/2/16399418/u...
  - rayiner 7y ago
    The Vox piece is garbage. There is only one bit of evidence that could at least support a causation between gun ownership and gun crime, and that’s the chart comparing gun ownership rate by state. But the chart Vox uses lumps in people exercising their own right to end their lives with gun crime. The chart of gun ownership rate versus homicide rate shows no correlation: https://medium.com/handwaving-freakoutery/everybodys-lying-about-the-link-between-gun-ownership-and-homicide-1108ed400be5 https://medium.com/handwaving-freakoutery/everybodys-lying-a... Additionally, the international comparisons ignore the fact that the US, like the rest of the new world, has long had higher homicide rates than Europe, even before gun control and even back when guns were prevalent in Europe. About 43% of American households own a gun. Norway, France, and Canada are all above 25%. Finland is at 50%. https://www.ippnw.org/pdf/mgs/7-1-cukier.pdf https://www.ippnw.org/pdf/mgs/7-1-cukier.pdf. Articles like those on Vox tend to focus on number of guns (Americans tend to stockpile them), but the figures for percentage of households with access to a gun aren’t as radically different in the US as in some other countries. But homicide rates in the US are radically different, and always have been. The homicide rate in France has been 1 per 100,000 or less since the 1940s. The lowest the homicide rate in the US has ever been is 4-5x higher than that.
    - robocat 7y ago
      Logically: If there were no guns in the US, there would be zero gun homicides. Therefore guns are part of the problem. Any statement that says guns are not part of the problem must be incorrect.

digi59404 7y ago

As I always say - the gun isn’t the problem. Someone waking up one morning and going “gee I’d like to kill a lot of people today” is the problem. That’s a cultural and mental health issue.

baroffoos 7y ago
The gun is still a problem. Its just only half the problem. A mentally ill person with a knife is still bad but an order of magnitude less so.
- t-writescode 7y ago
  But now all you’ve done is cut off the beaks of the chickens in the farm, so they can’t blind each other, the chicken are still in a very, very bad mental state.
  - baroffoos 7y ago
    Even a fairly healthy society will have a few bad actors. The solution is to provide care for people so the majority do not want to cause harm and then prevent needless ability to cause harm so the occasional crazy person isn't able to do much damage.
- alacombe 7y ago
  The gun is as much the problem as the truck used in Nice. Killing a lot of people is easy.
  - baroffoos 7y ago
    With the right tools. Arguably unrestricted vehicle access should not be available in densely populated areas. They are basically mass murder machines even with well intentioned drivers.
    - pjkundert 7y ago
      Welp, that shark wasn’t going to jump itself...
    - Reelin 7y ago
      I was about to disagree with your neighboring comment and point out that you were being inconsistent, but it turns out you weren't. I disagree with your worldview in this case, but want to let you know that I respect you for having a well formed and reasonably consistent opinion. I only wish that everyone else who voted took the time to think things through half so thoroughly - the world would likely be a much more functional place.
tomrod 7y ago
Can you comment which specific DSM mental disorder diagnosis someone expresses when they wake up one morning and go "gee I'd like to kill a lot of people today"?
- jcims 7y ago
  I think the point is precisely that there isn’t one today, and if all we ever do is play whack-a-mole with dangerous things we aren’t likely to find one in the near future either.
  - tomrod 7y ago
    I recognize that, which is why I asked the parent commenter to fill in details on their thought. Hopefully they recognize that it isn't a treatable mental disease driving gun violence, and rather reducing access to guns will reduce violent gun death. Arguably anitsocialites could use other means, but only at much higher costs.
robocat 7y ago
> the gun isn’t the problem Illogical. Gun ownership is truely a significant part of the problem. Countries with low gun ownership rates have measurably low rates of deaths by guns. Your meme needs to be eradicated. "Among developed nations, the US is far and away the most homicidal — in large part due to the easy access many Americans have to firearms." — https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/10/2/16399418/us-gun-violence-statistics-maps-charts https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/10/2/16399418/u...
- rayiner 7y ago
  The Vox piece is garbage. There is only one bit of evidence that could at least support a causation between gun ownership and gun crime, and that’s the chart comparing gun ownership rate by state. But the chart Vox uses lumps in people exercising their own right to end their lives with gun crime. The chart of gun ownership rate versus homicide rate shows no correlation: https://medium.com/handwaving-freakoutery/everybodys-lying-about-the-link-between-gun-ownership-and-homicide-1108ed400be5 https://medium.com/handwaving-freakoutery/everybodys-lying-a... Additionally, the international comparisons ignore the fact that the US, like the rest of the new world, has long had higher homicide rates than Europe, even before gun control and even back when guns were prevalent in Europe. About 43% of American households own a gun. Norway, France, and Canada are all above 25%. Finland is at 50%. https://www.ippnw.org/pdf/mgs/7-1-cukier.pdf https://www.ippnw.org/pdf/mgs/7-1-cukier.pdf. Articles like those on Vox tend to focus on number of guns (Americans tend to stockpile them), but the figures for percentage of households with access to a gun aren’t as radically different in the US as in some other countries. But homicide rates in the US are radically different, and always have been. The homicide rate in France has been 1 per 100,000 or less since the 1940s. The lowest the homicide rate in the US has ever been is 4-5x higher than that.
  - robocat 7y ago
    Logically: If there were no guns in the US, there would be zero gun homicides. Therefore guns are part of the problem. Any statement that says guns are not part of the problem must be incorrect.