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What is Edward Snowden, then? Will he be greeted with open arms when returning to the USA, or immediately end up in a black site? He criticized the real governm

What is Edward Snowden, then? Will he be greeted with open arms when returning to the USA, or immediately end up in a black site? He criticized the real government of the USA, not the sham you see on news media.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
reaperducer 7y ago
Edward Snowden is newsworthy because he is one person; he is the exception. The CCP categorizing tens of thousands of its own citizens in Hong Kong as terrorists and a million plus in the western part of the country as potential terrorists isn't even remotely the same thing.
- astronautjones 7y ago
  https://theintercept.com/2014/07/23/blacklisted/ https://theintercept.com/2014/07/23/blacklisted/
x220 7y ago
What about the 1-3 million people in Chinese concentration camps (excuse me, "re-education camps")?
- baddox 7y ago
  1-3 million? That seems like a pretty big range of uncertainty. What are your sources?
  - x220 7y ago
    This estimate gives 1.5 million [1], this gives 1-3 million. [2][3] [1] http://www.jpolrisk.com/brainwashing-police-guards-and-coercive-internment-evidence-from-chinese-government-documents-about-the-nature-and-extent-of-xinjiangs-vocational-training-internment-camps http://www.jpolrisk.com/brainwashing-police-guards-and-coerc... [2] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-china-concentrationcamps/china-putting-minority-muslims-in-concentration-camps-us-says-idUSKCN1S925K https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-china-concentrationca... [3] https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/04/world/asia/trump-china-uighurs-trade-deal.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/04/world/asia/trump-china-ui...
- ioerstets 7y ago
  For perspective on that number, there are 2.2 million African Americans in prison camps.
  - solidasparagus 7y ago
    First, that number is simply incorrect. It is about 1/4 of that number. Second, while America has a serious prison issue (the highest incarceration rate in the world? really??), the current state of affairs of African-Americans isn't really comparable to the treatment of Uighurs, Tibetans and Falun Gong practioners.
    - SmellyGeekBoy 7y ago
      Fighting whataboutism with whataboutism. Nice.
vineyardmike 7y ago
He also leaked a lot of documents that he wasn't supposed to. He didn't just criticize the government in isolation either.
- rndgermandude 7y ago
  So did Daniel Ellsberg with the Pentagon papers.
  - AdieuToLogic 7y ago
    > > > What is Edward Snowden, then? Will he be greeted with open arms when returning to the USA, or immediately end up in a black site? > > He also leaked a lot of documents that he wasn't supposed to. > So did Daniel Ellsberg with the Pentagon papers. Daniel Ellsberg wasn't a contractor at the NSA either, though he "was charged under the Espionage Act of 1917 along with other charges of theft and conspiracy, carrying a total maximum sentence of 115 years."[0] I doubt Snowden will be so lucky as to share Ellsberg's fate of all charges being dismissed "[d]ue to governmental misconduct and illegal evidence-gathering"[0]. 0 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Ellsberg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Ellsberg
    - laughinghan 7y ago
      Ellsberg himself has specifically defended Snowden, saying Snowden "made the right call" in fleeing the country [0] and "would not get a fair trial" if he returned [1]. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/daniel-ellsberg-nsa-leaker-snowden-made-the-right-call/2013/07/07/0b46d96c-e5b7-11e2-aef3-339619eab080_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/daniel-ellsberg-nsa-... https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/30/daniel-ellsberg-snowden-fair-trial-kerry-espionage-act https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/30/daniel...
      - AdieuToLogic 7y ago
        > Ellsberg himself has specifically defended Snowden, saying Snowden "made the right call" in fleeing the country [0] and "would not get a fair trial" if he returned [1]. Hence my assertion of: > I doubt Snowden will be so lucky as to share Ellsberg's fate ...
alasdair_ 7y ago
Edward Snowden is not currently listed as a terrorist or belonging to a terrorist group according to the US government. Here is the official list - https://www.state.gov/foreign-terrorist-organizations/ https://www.state.gov/foreign-terrorist-organizations/

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

reaperducer 7y ago

Edward Snowden is newsworthy because he is one person; he is the exception. The CCP categorizing tens of thousands of its own citizens in Hong Kong as terrorists and a million plus in the western part of the country as potential terrorists isn't even remotely the same thing.

astronautjones 7y ago
https://theintercept.com/2014/07/23/blacklisted/ https://theintercept.com/2014/07/23/blacklisted/

x220 7y ago

What about the 1-3 million people in Chinese concentration camps (excuse me, "re-education camps")?

baddox 7y ago
1-3 million? That seems like a pretty big range of uncertainty. What are your sources?
- x220 7y ago
  This estimate gives 1.5 million [1], this gives 1-3 million. [2][3] [1] http://www.jpolrisk.com/brainwashing-police-guards-and-coercive-internment-evidence-from-chinese-government-documents-about-the-nature-and-extent-of-xinjiangs-vocational-training-internment-camps http://www.jpolrisk.com/brainwashing-police-guards-and-coerc... [2] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-china-concentrationcamps/china-putting-minority-muslims-in-concentration-camps-us-says-idUSKCN1S925K https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-china-concentrationca... [3] https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/04/world/asia/trump-china-uighurs-trade-deal.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/04/world/asia/trump-china-ui...
ioerstets 7y ago
For perspective on that number, there are 2.2 million African Americans in prison camps.
- solidasparagus 7y ago
  First, that number is simply incorrect. It is about 1/4 of that number. Second, while America has a serious prison issue (the highest incarceration rate in the world? really??), the current state of affairs of African-Americans isn't really comparable to the treatment of Uighurs, Tibetans and Falun Gong practioners.
  - SmellyGeekBoy 7y ago
    Fighting whataboutism with whataboutism. Nice.

vineyardmike 7y ago

He also leaked a lot of documents that he wasn't supposed to. He didn't just criticize the government in isolation either.

rndgermandude 7y ago
So did Daniel Ellsberg with the Pentagon papers.
- AdieuToLogic 7y ago
  > > > What is Edward Snowden, then? Will he be greeted with open arms when returning to the USA, or immediately end up in a black site? > > He also leaked a lot of documents that he wasn't supposed to. > So did Daniel Ellsberg with the Pentagon papers. Daniel Ellsberg wasn't a contractor at the NSA either, though he "was charged under the Espionage Act of 1917 along with other charges of theft and conspiracy, carrying a total maximum sentence of 115 years."[0] I doubt Snowden will be so lucky as to share Ellsberg's fate of all charges being dismissed "[d]ue to governmental misconduct and illegal evidence-gathering"[0]. 0 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Ellsberg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Ellsberg
  - laughinghan 7y ago
    Ellsberg himself has specifically defended Snowden, saying Snowden "made the right call" in fleeing the country [0] and "would not get a fair trial" if he returned [1]. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/daniel-ellsberg-nsa-leaker-snowden-made-the-right-call/2013/07/07/0b46d96c-e5b7-11e2-aef3-339619eab080_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/daniel-ellsberg-nsa-... https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/30/daniel-ellsberg-snowden-fair-trial-kerry-espionage-act https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/30/daniel...
    - AdieuToLogic 7y ago
      > Ellsberg himself has specifically defended Snowden, saying Snowden "made the right call" in fleeing the country [0] and "would not get a fair trial" if he returned [1]. Hence my assertion of: > I doubt Snowden will be so lucky as to share Ellsberg's fate ...

alasdair_ 7y ago

Edward Snowden is not currently listed as a terrorist or belonging to a terrorist group according to the US government. Here is the official list - https://www.state.gov/foreign-terrorist-organizations/ https://www.state.gov/foreign-terrorist-organizations/