5 ms·

Because clearly only West is allowed to decide who is terrorist and who is not.

by HunOL 7y ago

spectramax 7y ago
Now, that I think of it - yes. You're right. I can't trust the Chinese government at all. To the CCP, anyone who criticizes the government is a potential terrorist.
- 0x8BADF00D 7y ago
  What is Edward Snowden, then? Will he be greeted with open arms when returning to the USA, or immediately end up in a black site? He criticized the real government of the USA, not the sham you see on news media.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - reaperducer 7y ago
    Edward Snowden is newsworthy because he is one person; he is the exception. The CCP categorizing tens of thousands of its own citizens in Hong Kong as terrorists and a million plus in the western part of the country as potential terrorists isn't even remotely the same thing.
    - astronautjones 7y ago
      https://theintercept.com/2014/07/23/blacklisted/ https://theintercept.com/2014/07/23/blacklisted/
  - x220 7y ago
    What about the 1-3 million people in Chinese concentration camps (excuse me, "re-education camps")?
    - baddox 7y ago
      1-3 million? That seems like a pretty big range of uncertainty. What are your sources?
      - x220 7y ago
        This estimate gives 1.5 million [1], this gives 1-3 million. [2][3] [1] http://www.jpolrisk.com/brainwashing-police-guards-and-coercive-internment-evidence-from-chinese-government-documents-about-the-nature-and-extent-of-xinjiangs-vocational-training-internment-camps http://www.jpolrisk.com/brainwashing-police-guards-and-coerc... [2] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-china-concentrationcamps/china-putting-minority-muslims-in-concentration-camps-us-says-idUSKCN1S925K https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-china-concentrationca... [3] https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/04/world/asia/trump-china-uighurs-trade-deal.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/04/world/asia/trump-china-ui...
    - ioerstets 7y ago
      For perspective on that number, there are 2.2 million African Americans in prison camps.
      - solidasparagus 7y ago
        First, that number is simply incorrect. It is about 1/4 of that number. Second, while America has a serious prison issue (the highest incarceration rate in the world? really??), the current state of affairs of African-Americans isn't really comparable to the treatment of Uighurs, Tibetans and Falun Gong practioners.
        SmellyGeekBoy 7y ago
        Fighting whataboutism with whataboutism. Nice.
  - vineyardmike 7y ago
    He also leaked a lot of documents that he wasn't supposed to. He didn't just criticize the government in isolation either.
    - rndgermandude 7y ago
      So did Daniel Ellsberg with the Pentagon papers.
      - AdieuToLogic 7y ago
        > > > What is Edward Snowden, then? Will he be greeted with open arms when returning to the USA, or immediately end up in a black site? > > He also leaked a lot of documents that he wasn't supposed to. > So did Daniel Ellsberg with the Pentagon papers. Daniel Ellsberg wasn't a contractor at the NSA either, though he "was charged under the Espionage Act of 1917 along with other charges of theft and conspiracy, carrying a total maximum sentence of 115 years."[0] I doubt Snowden will be so lucky as to share Ellsberg's fate of all charges being dismissed "[d]ue to governmental misconduct and illegal evidence-gathering"[0]. 0 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Ellsberg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Ellsberg
        laughinghan 7y ago
        Ellsberg himself has specifically defended Snowden, saying Snowden "made the right call" in fleeing the country [0] and "would not get a fair trial" if he returned [1]. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/daniel-ellsberg-nsa-leaker-snowden-made-the-right-call/2013/07/07/0b46d96c-e5b7-11e2-aef3-339619eab080_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/daniel-ellsberg-nsa-... https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/30/daniel-ellsberg-snowden-fair-trial-kerry-espionage-act https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/30/daniel...
        AdieuToLogic 7y ago
        > Ellsberg himself has specifically defended Snowden, saying Snowden "made the right call" in fleeing the country [0] and "would not get a fair trial" if he returned [1]. Hence my assertion of: > I doubt Snowden will be so lucky as to share Ellsberg's fate ...
  - alasdair_ 7y ago
    Edward Snowden is not currently listed as a terrorist or belonging to a terrorist group according to the US government. Here is the official list - https://www.state.gov/foreign-terrorist-organizations/ https://www.state.gov/foreign-terrorist-organizations/
kp98 7y ago
Yes, the CCP hit the nail on the head by putting over a million muslims in concentration camps. Oh and Falun Gong practitioners + Tibetan monks were simply sleeper agents.
derekhsu 7y ago
Yes, of course. Because Chinese government cannot be trusted and is the biggest terrorist in this world.
- freeflight 7y ago
  US social media has deleted graphic pictures of US torture as "terrorist propaganda" before [0], even quite historical pictures are classified as "child pornography" [2]. For now, over 2 years YouTube has been heavily cracking down on "extremist content" by deleting conflict footage, also deleting evidence for war crimes in the process [3]. It's hard to even quantify the problem because most people are not even aware of it existing. [0] https://www.mediapost.com/publications/article/327887/pbs-the-cleaners-uncovers-secret-world-of-socia.html https://www.mediapost.com/publications/article/327887/pbs-th... [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-37318031 https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-37318031 [2] https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/youtube-ai-deletes-war-crime-videos-extremist-material https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/youtube-ai-deletes-war-cr...
  - PavlovsCat 7y ago
    > It's hard to even quantify the problem because most people are not even aware of it existing. Oh? It's brought up every single fucking time the CCP is criticized. You can talk about it, and if you made a group to find out more about these things and tried to raise awareness, you wouldn't have to fear for your life and that of your family. That's quite the difference, and not hard to notice at all.
oh_sigh 7y ago
Yeah, let's be clear. Is there really any difference between terrorists and western civilization? Checkmate, founding fathers!
- dang 7y ago
  Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
alkonaut 7y ago
Yes, and that's not even controversial. A totalitarian government doesn't get a say.
- kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
  Even the ones who turn a blind eye to murdered Afghani's?
  - alkonaut 7y ago
    Were newspapers who cover it shut down? Journalists murdered? What happened?

Because clearly only West is allowed to decide who is terrorist and who is not.

by HunOL 7y ago

Because clearly only West is allowed to decide who is terrorist and who is not.

Now, that I think of it - yes. You're right. I can't trust the Chinese government at all. To the CCP, anyone who criticizes the government is a potential terrorist.

0x8BADF00D 7y ago
What is Edward Snowden, then? Will he be greeted with open arms when returning to the USA, or immediately end up in a black site? He criticized the real government of the USA, not the sham you see on news media.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- reaperducer 7y ago
  Edward Snowden is newsworthy because he is one person; he is the exception. The CCP categorizing tens of thousands of its own citizens in Hong Kong as terrorists and a million plus in the western part of the country as potential terrorists isn't even remotely the same thing.
  - astronautjones 7y ago
    https://theintercept.com/2014/07/23/blacklisted/ https://theintercept.com/2014/07/23/blacklisted/
- x220 7y ago
  What about the 1-3 million people in Chinese concentration camps (excuse me, "re-education camps")?
  - baddox 7y ago
    1-3 million? That seems like a pretty big range of uncertainty. What are your sources?
    - x220 7y ago
      This estimate gives 1.5 million [1], this gives 1-3 million. [2][3] [1] http://www.jpolrisk.com/brainwashing-police-guards-and-coercive-internment-evidence-from-chinese-government-documents-about-the-nature-and-extent-of-xinjiangs-vocational-training-internment-camps http://www.jpolrisk.com/brainwashing-police-guards-and-coerc... [2] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-china-concentrationcamps/china-putting-minority-muslims-in-concentration-camps-us-says-idUSKCN1S925K https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-china-concentrationca... [3] https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/04/world/asia/trump-china-uighurs-trade-deal.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/04/world/asia/trump-china-ui...
  - ioerstets 7y ago
    For perspective on that number, there are 2.2 million African Americans in prison camps.
    - solidasparagus 7y ago
      First, that number is simply incorrect. It is about 1/4 of that number. Second, while America has a serious prison issue (the highest incarceration rate in the world? really??), the current state of affairs of African-Americans isn't really comparable to the treatment of Uighurs, Tibetans and Falun Gong practioners.
      - SmellyGeekBoy 7y ago
        Fighting whataboutism with whataboutism. Nice.
- vineyardmike 7y ago
  He also leaked a lot of documents that he wasn't supposed to. He didn't just criticize the government in isolation either.
  - rndgermandude 7y ago
    So did Daniel Ellsberg with the Pentagon papers.
    - AdieuToLogic 7y ago
      > > > What is Edward Snowden, then? Will he be greeted with open arms when returning to the USA, or immediately end up in a black site? > > He also leaked a lot of documents that he wasn't supposed to. > So did Daniel Ellsberg with the Pentagon papers. Daniel Ellsberg wasn't a contractor at the NSA either, though he "was charged under the Espionage Act of 1917 along with other charges of theft and conspiracy, carrying a total maximum sentence of 115 years."[0] I doubt Snowden will be so lucky as to share Ellsberg's fate of all charges being dismissed "[d]ue to governmental misconduct and illegal evidence-gathering"[0]. 0 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Ellsberg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Ellsberg
      - laughinghan 7y ago
        Ellsberg himself has specifically defended Snowden, saying Snowden "made the right call" in fleeing the country [0] and "would not get a fair trial" if he returned [1]. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/daniel-ellsberg-nsa-leaker-snowden-made-the-right-call/2013/07/07/0b46d96c-e5b7-11e2-aef3-339619eab080_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/daniel-ellsberg-nsa-... https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/30/daniel-ellsberg-snowden-fair-trial-kerry-espionage-act https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/30/daniel...
        AdieuToLogic 7y ago
        > Ellsberg himself has specifically defended Snowden, saying Snowden "made the right call" in fleeing the country [0] and "would not get a fair trial" if he returned [1]. Hence my assertion of: > I doubt Snowden will be so lucky as to share Ellsberg's fate ...
- alasdair_ 7y ago
  Edward Snowden is not currently listed as a terrorist or belonging to a terrorist group according to the US government. Here is the official list - https://www.state.gov/foreign-terrorist-organizations/ https://www.state.gov/foreign-terrorist-organizations/

kp98 7y ago

Yes, the CCP hit the nail on the head by putting over a million muslims in concentration camps. Oh and Falun Gong practitioners + Tibetan monks were simply sleeper agents.

derekhsu 7y ago

Yes, of course. Because Chinese government cannot be trusted and is the biggest terrorist in this world.

freeflight 7y ago
US social media has deleted graphic pictures of US torture as "terrorist propaganda" before [0], even quite historical pictures are classified as "child pornography" [2]. For now, over 2 years YouTube has been heavily cracking down on "extremist content" by deleting conflict footage, also deleting evidence for war crimes in the process [3]. It's hard to even quantify the problem because most people are not even aware of it existing. [0] https://www.mediapost.com/publications/article/327887/pbs-the-cleaners-uncovers-secret-world-of-socia.html https://www.mediapost.com/publications/article/327887/pbs-th... [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-37318031 https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-37318031 [2] https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/youtube-ai-deletes-war-crime-videos-extremist-material https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/youtube-ai-deletes-war-cr...
- PavlovsCat 7y ago
  > It's hard to even quantify the problem because most people are not even aware of it existing. Oh? It's brought up every single fucking time the CCP is criticized. You can talk about it, and if you made a group to find out more about these things and tried to raise awareness, you wouldn't have to fear for your life and that of your family. That's quite the difference, and not hard to notice at all.

oh_sigh 7y ago

Yeah, let's be clear. Is there really any difference between terrorists and western civilization? Checkmate, founding fathers!

dang 7y ago
Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

alkonaut 7y ago

Yes, and that's not even controversial. A totalitarian government doesn't get a say.

kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
Even the ones who turn a blind eye to murdered Afghani's?
- alkonaut 7y ago
  Were newspapers who cover it shut down? Journalists murdered? What happened?