5 ms·

Source?

by cblum 7y ago

Source?

Forbo 7y ago
Still working on the first part, but here's a source for the second: https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/08/01/540903038/u-s-citizen-held-by-immigration-for-3-years-denied-compensation-by-appeals-court https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/08/01/540903038... Edit: This appears further down that article: > "Those data show that from 2007 through July of last year, 693 U.S. citizens were held in local jails on federal detainers — in other words, at the request of immigration officials. And 818 more Americans were held in immigration detention centers during that same time frame, according to data obtained through a separate FOIA request by Northwestern University professor Jacqueline Stevens and analyzed by NPR." 693 + 818 = 1,511
- nopriorarrests 7y ago
  From 2007 through 2017. 1511 people, or 151 person per year. And they were just detained, not shot dead or sent to gulags forever. Now, honest question, no sarcasm. ~100 people die EACH DAY in car crashes in USA. 25 people die annually due to lightning strikes. Is there any chance to not being depressed with all of that stats? I mean, if 150 detentions per year in nation of 327 million people (0.000045%) make you depressed and terrified, what are your chance to feel yourself content and happy?
  - fzeroracer 7y ago
    The difference is that one of those is the result of accidents and natural phenomenon, the other is the result of a government secret police detaining people indefinitely and going against the founding principles of this country. Those are the numbers they were willing to give up, too. I assume you don't see the problem with the government choosing to just pull American citizens off the street?
  - ianleeclark 7y ago
    > And they were just detained, not shot dead or sent to gulags forever. They might've just lost their jobs, ended up late on rent, or going without medicine, but they were "only just detained." > Is there any chance to not being depressed with all of that stats? These are deaths of effectively random chance, not of systematic persecution riding on the back of nationalism waving a fasces. Each one of these detentions is a policy failure and, as we live in at least nominally Democracy, there is culpability on every American unless they take any action. This weight is what bears down on people, but it seems that you are, rather worryingly, insulated or alienated from this violence. > what are your chance to feel yourself content and happy? Why are so eager to change this to a subjective matter when this directly deals with objective violence?
    - nopriorarrests 7y ago
      >They might've just lost their jobs, ended up late on rent, or going without medicine, but they were "only just detained." Yes, and again, how many people default on their student debts each year? Probably x100 times more? And the outcome is more or less the same? And still ICE is the problem? Honestly, I just don't understand the priorities here, and again, zero sarcasm. Student debt is 1.4 TRILLION dollars, if you dont repay it you end up late on rent, go without medicine, have your wage garnished, but let's revolt around 151 people each year being detained for some time. Honestly, if I was looking for systematic persecution, I would rather look at student debt crisis, if I correctly understand what "systematic" and "policy failure" means. (English is my second language). EDIT: "7.5 million student loan borrowers in default and nearly 2 million others seriously behind on their payments", source NYT. Surely 1511 beat 7 500 000 as "systematic" and "policy failure". EDIT2: And if we speak frankly, "Young people in U.S. dying at high rates" is the reason their crippling 1.4T debt or their crippling fear of being detained by ICE?
      - fzeroracer 7y ago
        Your argument essentially boils down to whataboutism. That we can't be concerned about an agency abusing it's power and reach to lock up American citizens because there are other issues to care about. I'm not sure we should ignore flagrant disregard for the law just because more people die in car accidents but that's just me.
        nopriorarrests 7y ago
        I think my argument boils down to realism. In a country of 300M people, you will never, ever get rid of some injustice and tragedy. You will always have some rapes, some orphans, people wrongfully jailed, stuff like that. That's just a harsh truth of human existence and I accept it as a mere mortal. But let's be concerned about an agency abusing it's power and harming 151 people per year. Student loan industry makes millions of people miserable each year, and contribute to "young people in US dying at high rates", but since it's all within the law and said industry not abusing it's power at all, we can just disregard it. Honestly, it's just a crazy talk to me. Let's abolish ICE and death rate for young adults in US will improve instantly, right? Or maybe let's fix that 1.5T of debt which literally kills mostly young adults?

Source?

by cblum 7y ago

Source?

Still working on the first part, but here's a source for the second: https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/08/01/540903038/u-s-citizen-held-by-immigration-for-3-years-denied-compensation-by-appeals-court https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/08/01/540903038... Edit: This appears further down that article: > "Those data show that from 2007 through July of last year, 693 U.S. citizens were held in local jails on federal detainers — in other words, at the request of immigration officials. And 818 more Americans were held in immigration detention centers during that same time frame, according to data obtained through a separate FOIA request by Northwestern University professor Jacqueline Stevens and analyzed by NPR." 693 + 818 = 1,511

nopriorarrests 7y ago
From 2007 through 2017. 1511 people, or 151 person per year. And they were just detained, not shot dead or sent to gulags forever. Now, honest question, no sarcasm. ~100 people die EACH DAY in car crashes in USA. 25 people die annually due to lightning strikes. Is there any chance to not being depressed with all of that stats? I mean, if 150 detentions per year in nation of 327 million people (0.000045%) make you depressed and terrified, what are your chance to feel yourself content and happy?
- fzeroracer 7y ago
  The difference is that one of those is the result of accidents and natural phenomenon, the other is the result of a government secret police detaining people indefinitely and going against the founding principles of this country. Those are the numbers they were willing to give up, too. I assume you don't see the problem with the government choosing to just pull American citizens off the street?
- ianleeclark 7y ago
  > And they were just detained, not shot dead or sent to gulags forever. They might've just lost their jobs, ended up late on rent, or going without medicine, but they were "only just detained." > Is there any chance to not being depressed with all of that stats? These are deaths of effectively random chance, not of systematic persecution riding on the back of nationalism waving a fasces. Each one of these detentions is a policy failure and, as we live in at least nominally Democracy, there is culpability on every American unless they take any action. This weight is what bears down on people, but it seems that you are, rather worryingly, insulated or alienated from this violence. > what are your chance to feel yourself content and happy? Why are so eager to change this to a subjective matter when this directly deals with objective violence?
  - nopriorarrests 7y ago
    >They might've just lost their jobs, ended up late on rent, or going without medicine, but they were "only just detained." Yes, and again, how many people default on their student debts each year? Probably x100 times more? And the outcome is more or less the same? And still ICE is the problem? Honestly, I just don't understand the priorities here, and again, zero sarcasm. Student debt is 1.4 TRILLION dollars, if you dont repay it you end up late on rent, go without medicine, have your wage garnished, but let's revolt around 151 people each year being detained for some time. Honestly, if I was looking for systematic persecution, I would rather look at student debt crisis, if I correctly understand what "systematic" and "policy failure" means. (English is my second language). EDIT: "7.5 million student loan borrowers in default and nearly 2 million others seriously behind on their payments", source NYT. Surely 1511 beat 7 500 000 as "systematic" and "policy failure". EDIT2: And if we speak frankly, "Young people in U.S. dying at high rates" is the reason their crippling 1.4T debt or their crippling fear of being detained by ICE?
    - fzeroracer 7y ago
      Your argument essentially boils down to whataboutism. That we can't be concerned about an agency abusing it's power and reach to lock up American citizens because there are other issues to care about. I'm not sure we should ignore flagrant disregard for the law just because more people die in car accidents but that's just me.
      - nopriorarrests 7y ago
        I think my argument boils down to realism. In a country of 300M people, you will never, ever get rid of some injustice and tragedy. You will always have some rapes, some orphans, people wrongfully jailed, stuff like that. That's just a harsh truth of human existence and I accept it as a mere mortal. But let's be concerned about an agency abusing it's power and harming 151 people per year. Student loan industry makes millions of people miserable each year, and contribute to "young people in US dying at high rates", but since it's all within the law and said industry not abusing it's power at all, we can just disregard it. Honestly, it's just a crazy talk to me. Let's abolish ICE and death rate for young adults in US will improve instantly, right? Or maybe let's fix that 1.5T of debt which literally kills mostly young adults?